Open Thread – 10/26/2013

Worth a note:

“Federal Prosecutors, in a Policy Shift, Cite Warrantless Wiretaps as Evidence
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: October 26, 2013

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department for the first time has notified a criminal defendant that evidence being used against him came from a warrantless wiretap, a move that is expected to set up a Supreme Court test of whether such eavesdropping is constitutional. ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/us/federal-prosecutors-in-a-policy-shift-cite-warrantless-wiretaps-as-evidence.html?_r=0

49 Responses

  1. Uh, why would the “most transparent administration in history” want to do this?

    Also why is US spying on Germany controversial. It’s Germany or Christs sake! It would be scandalous if we weren’t.

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  2. We need to get jnc over here, he had a couple of great posts about this on PL this morning.

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  3. It’s my top post.

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  4. Now why did I read that as “NoVa” rather than you????

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  5. BTW, how far apart (time-wise) are Richmond and Baltimore? And do you ever get up to DC? We should get together for a beer now that I’ve moved out here to Leftie Paradise.

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  6. I was actually considering suggesting it since Brent is in DC this week, but I’m slammed and can’t get up there this week.

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  7. Yeah, I e-mailed him with my phone number in case he gets time to get together. One of these days. . .

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  8. I try not to obsess about Aletheia on PL, but she says some truly goofy things.

    Google promotes right-wing libertarianism in subtle ways.

    There you have it–it’s my use of Teh Google that has turned me into the Libertarian Avenger!

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  9. Michi – it’s literally any thing that provides a choice is biased towards libertarianism.

    Freedom is slavery in her/his mind. (Aletheia says he’s a guy).

    Word itself appears to be Greek

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aletheia

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  10. Aletheia says he’s a guy

    That’s interesting. . . he/she was going on yesterday about how brave I must have been, being a woman and all, to join the military. Because we know about men in the military.

    If he’s a guy, he spends more time worrying about his own WMP than anyone I know other than Dezzie! 🙂

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  11. Believe it or not Michi, despite their protestations about equality, I believe that Aletheia and Dezzie can’t actually conceive of a woman competing with and beating a man in certain areas due to their assumptions about how the world works and victimhood. It’s why Russell Brand was absolutely correct about this:

    “She [Margret Thatcher] is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

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  12. From the conference that Brent is at:

    ” Monday, Oct 28, 2013 01:24 PM EST
    Could tight mortgage practices be worse than loose lending?
    Chairman of Uniondale, Lewis Raineri, doles out warning at Mortgage Bankers Association in Washington
    By Jody Shenn”

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/28/could_tight_mortgage_practices_be_worse_than_loose_lending_newscred/

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  13. Whole lotta butthurt goin’ on.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/28/republicans_new_anti_obamacare_tactic_class_war/

    And I thought I wanted it to fail because I’m a racist.

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    • Heh. Robert Reich apparently thinks that Obama’s signature legislative achievement should more properly be known as Nixoncare. Beyond that amusing footnote, it is really quite astounding, the mental gymnastics D’s will put themselves through in order to absolve themselves of responsibility for this monstrosity. In Reich’s telling, the only reason we have Obamacare is because that is what R’s demanded. The real Democratic plan “would have been cheaper, simpler, and more widely accepted by the public.” Which explains why Obamacare passed congress with not one, single, solitary congressional Republican vote.

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  14. I believe that Aletheia and Dezzie can’t actually conceive of a woman competing with and beating a man in certain areas

    I hadn’t thought about it like that, but you may very well be right. Since I’ve worked with, for, and in charge of men my whole life I just come at things from that POV, but if they haven’t. . .

    Interesting. I’ll have to think about that for a while.

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  15. And I thought I wanted it to fail because I’m a racist.

    Oh, you can be both a racist and hate the poor, McWing. It’s a two-fer!

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  16. The Democrats were slaves to a filibuster proof Democratic majority in the Senate.

    Poor bastards.

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    • McWing:

      The Democrats were slaves to a filibuster proof Democratic majority in the Senate.

      It really is pretty astounding. Even when they force their will upon the nation over the objections of every single sitting Republican, the results are still the R’s fault. You can only shake your head at the unmitigated gall of these people. Totally shameless.

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  17. Which of course begs the question of why vote for Democrats if they can’t even pass the “Democratic” plan.

    Reich of course ignores the massive internal fighting within the Democratic caucus over the PPACA.

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  18. Reich of course ignores the massive internal fighting within the Democratic caucus over the PPACA.

    Exactly, the Republicans made an easy foil but they were absolutely unable to do ANYTHING to stop Obamacare. Hell, even Coburn and Demints chickenshitted out of having this abomination read out. All for a mid-week vote on a debt ceiling increase in February. Big fucking deal.

    Hope Christmas was nice for ya a-holes!

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  19. it is really quite astounding, the mental gymnastics D’s will put themselves through in order to absolve themselves of responsibility for this monstrosity.

    I wish you’d specify Democratic politicians and/or pundits. I think it’s far better than the status quo, and would have preferred single payer or nationalized healthcare.

    Which I can only imagine the adjectives you’d use to describe.

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    • Mich:

      I think it’s far better than the status quo…

      That’s because you are one of the “winners”.

      …and would have preferred single payer or nationalized healthcare.

      So much for that alleged libertarian streak in you that I’ve heard about.

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  20. Wow! Breathtaking.

    “I spent two years defending Obamacare. I had constituents scream at me, spit at me and call me names that I can’t put in print. The congressman was not re-elected in 2010 mainly because of the anti-Obamacare anger. When the congressman was not re-elected, I also (along with the rest of our staff) lost my job. I was upset that because of the health care issue, I didn’t have a job anymore but still defended Obamacare because it would make health care available to everyone at, what I assumed, would be an affordable price. I have now learned that I was wrong. Very wrong.”

    Yeah, someone tell Einstein here about the “No free lunch” principle.

    She went on, “Blue Cross also tells me that if I don’t pick one of the options, they will just assume I want the one for $647. … Someone please tell me why my premium in January will be $356 more than in December?”

    Words escape me.

    But right now Sue Klinkhamer, no novice to government or public policy, isn’t among them.

    “I am a Democrat and I believe in health care for all,” she said.

    “And I was excited that previously uninsured people could now get insurance on the open market. But this is not affordable to me.”

    Klinkhamer suggests renaming the Affordable Care Act.

    “Just call it,” she said dryly, “the Available Care Act.”

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/marin/23352031-452/obamacare-jacks-up-her-insurance.html

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    • McWing (from the link):

      “I am a Democrat and I believe in health care for all,” she said…

      I’m a Democrat and I believe in Santa Claus. And I was excited on Christmas morning when I saw all the presents for everyone. But this credit card bill is just not affordable to me. I’ve been lied to!

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  21. “I wish you’d specify Democratic politicians and/or pundits.”

    In this case, it’s Robert Reich in the linked piece.

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  22. Pundit (in this case).

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  23. My point is, I try to say “Republican politicians” when I’m talking about Republicans making policy that I object to rather than “Republicans”. . . because I’m not accusing anyone here of making (or even, necessarily, supporting) policies like mandating ultrasounds before allowing a woman to get an abortion. Scott asked once for an example of language that made me feel unwelcome around here.

    Well, there’s an example. I understand conservatives railing about Democratic politicians and the evil they’re wreaking on the country, but when it sounds like you’re accusing me of being part of the downfall I object.

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  24. Well, no one believed you anyway.

    @JohnEkdahl: Geez. RT @RosieGray: SAO says Feinstein statement that WH told her intel collection on allies will not continue is “not accurate”

    But I’m sure the Senator doesn’t mind appearing to say whatever might most expeditiously end whatever controversy Obama finds himself in.

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  25. That’s because you are one of the “winners”.

    No, I think it’s better than the status quo because people with pre-existing conditions can get insurance now. I just got lucky.

    So much for that alleged libertarian streak in you that I’ve heard about..

    Blame jnc. He’s the one who thinks I’m fronting.

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  26. This Valerie Jarrett lie, er Tweet leaves me Speechless.

    @vj44: FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans. No change is required unless insurance companies change existing plans.

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  27. Course not. Print a few more trillion. I mean, fuck it.

    @OfficialCBC: America is not broke. – Rep. @JacksonLeeTX18 #cbctalks http://t.co/9qddQtkPBb #cbcbudget

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  28. Mich:

    No, I think it’s better than the status quo because people with pre-existing conditions can get insurance now.

    At someone else’s expense, of course. Better for some, worse for others. That is what the progressive project is all about: the power to pick winners and losers.

    BTW, I’ve said this a million times to no effect, but it remains true: people with pre-existing conditions don’t need insurance. They need a payment plan, usually one that includes a benefactor.

    Blame jnc. He’s the one who thinks I’m fronting.

    Yeah, I’ve always thought he was crazy to think so, if he was really serious.

    From earlier:

    I understand conservatives railing about Democratic politicians and the evil they’re wreaking on the country, but when it sounds like you’re accusing me of being part of the downfall I object.

    I didn’t mean to accuse you of anything earlier, but now that you mention it politicians don’t elect themselves. People who voted for Obama, and in particular people who voted for him even after he passed this monstrosity of a law, certainly bear a lot of responsibility for the disaster that awaits the nation.

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    • Scott:

      You said “BTW, I’ve said this a million times, but it remains true: people with pre-existing conditions don’t need insurance. They need a payment plan, usually one that includes a benefactor.”.

      Please explain to me how I, or anyone else like me, who has an extremely debilitating congenital disability, is to have a payment plan which would allow them to not only pay down the medical costs to fix, but also allow monies left to actually pay for the basics of living…. and please explain just how you envision someone like me, or anyone else like me, obtaining a benefactor. I guess there are plenty of wealthy people who are willing to volunteer to help millions of us with pre-existing conditions…. which, in my case, comes with exorbitant health care costs?

      If you know of such benefactors, please provide me contact information… I cannot continue to live as I am, I NEED my open door laminoplasty done ASAP according to my orthopedic specialist as every day I wait, I risk paralysis, both external (arms, legs) and internal (diaphragm, etc.), and even possible death. You seem to have all the answers Scott, so please enlighten me further. I would bow down and kiss the hand, and ass, of any benefactor willing to reach out and help me as I’m seriously suffering from my pre-existing condition.

      BTW all, I got my MRI results of my foot… from injury due to falling due to pinched artery in my neck back in June. It was crushed. While xrays taken soon after fall showed nothing broken, MRI showed I did fracture the big toe. MRI also showed: main tendon from big toe to ankle severely damaged, all tendons for the middle 3 toes decimated, foot filled with a LOT of scar tissue, small veins damaged resulting in edema across top of bridge of foot and along main tendon of big toe, many nerves severely damaged and now constantly fire off (similar to diabetic foot nerve pain) and all toes surrounded with scar tissue and there is a huge section of scar tissue on bottom of foot just below all toes. Doc prescribed Lyrica (generic for me due to cost), which I will be on now for the rest of my life and believes the only part of foot that might be fixed in the future would be the scar tissue on bottom of foot, that “might” be removed in order to relieve pressure upon trying to stand or walk. Good news is I can walk now, just not like everyone else and I must do so quite slowly (sigh and ugh). And the shape of my foot has changed, it is now more narrow and more thicker, I cannot wear the same size shoe on injured foot as I do on my right foot… I now have to buy 2 pair of shoes every time I buy shoes, in 2 different sizes.

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      • Geanie:

        Please explain to me how I, or anyone else like me, who has an extremely debilitating congenital disability, is to have a payment plan which would allow them to not only pay down the medical costs to fix, but also allow monies left to actually pay for the basics of living…. and please explain just how you envision someone like me, or anyone else like me, obtaining a benefactor.

        I don’t know the particulars of your situation, but more generally if a person cannot afford the costs of his own health care, a benefactor could be the government/taxpayers (eg medicaid), or an insurance company (this is what Obamacare does) or possibly some private philanthropist.

        My point is simply that talking about uninsured people with pre-existing conditions getting “insurance” misconstrues the concept of insurance. Insurance exists to provide financial protection against the risk of some unknown future event and cost. But those with a pre-existing condition don’t need protection against the risk of some unknown future event and cost. They need financial assistance to help cover a known cost for an existing problem right now. We can call such assistance many things, but insurance is not one of them. And by trying to pretend that it is insurance, as Obamacare does, the concept of insurance is being destroyed. Which, I believe, is actually the ultimate goal of Obamacare designers. They don’t really want a private insurance market to exist. They want government financed health care for all, just like Mich.

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        • Scott – My particular situation is this:
          After taking care of myself (and 3 kids for 26) for over 3 decades, doing all the right things and never having to accept help from anyone; that’s the way I like it, even though I am a bleeding heart liberal; my mother taught me we help one another, but, we only need to help those who are willing to help themselves; I now find myself unable to work, with no insurance and a pre-existing condition I’ve known about for decades. I always had insurance via my employer (until July 2010), so my health was never an issue and I never had to have any part of my healthcare costs be paid by anyone other than my insurance carrier and myself.

          I have been without health care insurance since July 2010. My orthopedic surgeon was in the process of getting an “open door laminoplasty” scheduled to widen my spinal column C3-C7, when I received notice my job was outsourced and my physician said there was no way the surgery could be scheduled before I would lose my insurance; we went with the epidural shots instead, they lasted a year.

          I have been suffering for almost 3 years now, even while I continued working the first 2. And obviously there was no way with my pre-existing condition could I ever be able to purchase health insurance. And my surgeon simply refuses to give me any more shots (I’ve hit the limit, showing side affects), and says I absolutely need the surgery before it’s too late… he’s upset I haven’t found a way to pay for it, although he has no suggestions either.

          My husband is receiving social security, $1637/mo. I have had no insurance since early January, and last year, I only worked 3 days a week the first 6 months, then only 2 days a week the remainder of the year… jobs are hard to find for old IBMers. So yes, we have gone through our savings for various reasons over the past 3 years.

          I do not qualify for Medicaid in the state of Oklahoma. Governor Fallin rejected the ACA Medicaid Expansion; for a family of 2, having a monthly income of $1637 is $527 too much. Once my disability is approved, our 2 incomes will be enough to qualify to purchase an insurance plan under the ACA, with subsidies I am sure. But I find this much more satisfying, as I will at least be putting however much I can towards the cost of my healthcare insurance. Which as it stands now, I’m sure is going to be much, much less than the ER costs I’ve had to push off onto the wallets of others.

          I’m in the health care gap that the ACA is supposed to help the most. And damn straight, I appreciate it; especially since I don’t believe our country is crawling with “health care” benefactors.

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  29. McWing:

    This Valerie Jarrett lie, er Tweet leaves me Speechless.

    This admin routinely shows an amazing degree of cynicism and utter contempt for the intelligence of the average American voter. But given the last two election results, can you blame them? It works.

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    • BTW, McWing, again on this:

      This Valerie Jarrett lie, er Tweet leaves me Speechless.

      I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised. This is often the modus operandi of the big government left. Blame the private sector for the unpleasant consequences of the left’s policies, and use it as an excuse to grab more power.

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  30. now that you mention it politicians don’t elect themselves

    I just won a bet with myself. I don’t have a problem owning the fact that I voted for Obama and other Democrats, because (1) I don’t think it’s a monstrosity and (2) it’s hardly going to be a disaster.

    I expect you own two wars; I’ll take Obamacare over the wars any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    Thanks for your continued civility and openness to debate. It’s a wonder you haven’t called me stupid yet.

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  31. Mich:

    I expect you own two wars

    Well, Bush didn’t run on a platform of taking the country to war, and I didn’t vote for him (or anyone else in 2000 or 2004) in any event. But I did support both the Afghanistan and Iraq military operations, which I am happy to acknowledge.

    Thanks for your continued civility and openness to debate.

    No prob. It’s why I am here.

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  32. I’ll take the wars. I would have conducted them differently (strongman friendly to the US) and gottten out as soon as possible, but they were the right thing to do.

    I have never been able to perceive of a “right to healthcare” that could ever be moral.

    On the whole this is a very easy decision.

    And Michi, thinking someone is wrong is different than thinking they’re stupid.

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    • Saw this link at Ace this morning. It was exactly this kind of thing, so regularly spewed out by the BBC, that compelled me to start my blog when I was in the UK. Clearly it hasn’t gotten any better since my departure.

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  33. Geanie–it would be worth asking your doc if what you have with your foot is the equivalent of Charcot foot (“shar-koe”, named after the French physician). It isn’t precisely the same, because Charcot is caused by diabetic neuropathy, but it results in the extensive damage like what you’ve got. There are podiatrists who specialize in treating Charcot, and one of them may have an idea of how to get you some more movement and/or less pain. Or maybe just go straight to a podiatrist if/when you can and see what he says.

    Hang in there. . . I’ve got you in my thoughts.

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    • Michi – Thank you for the kind words. Yes the nerve pain is very similar to Charcot, with the difference being mine is caused because so many nerves were severed or severely damaged and were unable to re-grow properly due to all the scar tissue. The area across the bridge of my foot was damaged too severely for any type of treatment other than pain control. And I was subscribed Lyrica, the same script provided for Charcot. The only area that could be helped is the area in the bottom of my foot, just beneath the toes; I could possibly have that scar tissue removed, relieving some pressure from the bottom.

      Or, I could just live with that scar tissue so I don’t cost anyone else (tax payers) for all or at least some of the cost.

      And while some may take that as sarcasm, it isn’t meant to be. Even though I am a bleeding heart liberal, I know not to help those who aren’t willing to help themselves… and I for one don’t like having to accept help… I had not need nor desire to for over 3 decades… so this sucks for me…. I appreciate the ACA since it will at least (once my disability is approved and our monthly incomes are combined) allow me to purchase an insurance plan, albeit will most likely be subsidized… but hey, I’ve paid for others for all my life until now, I honestly feel I have earned the right for a little help, and I’d rather it be the smaller cost of insurance premiums vs the ER costs.

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  34. “Blame jnc. He’s the one who thinks I’m fronting.

    Yeah, I’ve always thought he was crazy to think so, if he was really serious.”

    Depends on who she is arguing with at any given moment.

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    • jnc:

      Depends on who she is arguing with at any given moment.

      I think the sign of a libertarian is not so much the position they may take in a given argument, but rather the principles/values from which they argue for whatever given position they have adopted.

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  35. Depends on who she is arguing with at any given moment

    Too bad Chameleon was a guy. . .

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  36. TYPO NOTICE: In the above, this paragraph beginning with:

    My husband is receiving social security, $1637/mo. I have had no insurance

    SHOULD HAVE READ
    My husband is receiving social security, $1637/mo. I have had no income.

    Like

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