Brent Nyitray
Fairlington Blade
Let the mutherfuker burn!
jnc4p
Kevin S. Willis
Michigoose
lmsinca
markinaustin
Memetrics
novahockey
quarterback
ScottC
yellojktVital Statistics:
| Last | Change | Percent | |
| S&P Futures | 1326.3 | 6.1 | 0.46% |
| Eurostoxx Index | 2455.9 | 34.730 | 1.43% |
| Oil (WTI) | 100.68 | 1.280 | 1.29% |
| LIBOR | 0.5531 | -0.004 | -0.63% |
| US Dollar Index (DXY) | 79.148 | -0.328 | -0.41% |
| 10 Year Govt Bond Yield | 1.96% | -0.03% |
Futures are higher this morning on strength in Europe and the Fed’s comments. To be honest, I found yesterday’s language in the FOMC statement to be equity-bearish. They committed to lower interest rates until late 2014, took down GDP estimates, and made scant mention of the recent signs of an accelerating economy. The Fed looks at economic indicators that are not made public, so we can’t know exactly what they are seeing. Perhaps their models are telling them that these recent strong data points have been spurious.
I like to listen to conference calls from companies reporting earnings. And while it is tough to quantify and model body language, it does give a view of the economy going forward. Apple’s report certainly speaks of a stronger consumer. The homebuilders have been increasing backlog and activity. United Rentals reported last night a 27% increase in revenues in Q4 and a utilization rate of 69% for FY11, a company record. While you can object that URI’s numbers are coming from a weak base, you can’t dispute the direction.
One thing is for sure, the Fed wants you out of Treasuries. They are giving you a good bid to exit the long end of the curve. They are telling you (through an explicit inflation target) that they intend for you to make a 0% real rate of return on the 10 year bond. They are paying you nothing to sit in short term paper. The Fed wants you buying real estate. They want you buying stocks. There is an old saw in the market – “don’t fight the fed.” And that may explain yesterday’s equity rally as much as anything. Heard on the Street this morning this morning interpreted the statement as “We won’t raise rates until the economy is really going.” And supposedly that gave equity investors a little comfort to put more money to work.
I guess it is time to figure out where the next bubble is going to be. 6 years of rock-bottom interest rates should be a good base for one. Farmland. Commodities. You could make the argument that long term govvies are in bubble territory already. If we start seeing levered Treasury strategy ETFs and structured notes, you’ll know we have crossed the rubicon.
In economic data this morning, durable goods orders were higher than expected at 3%. Initial Jobless Claims came in at 377k. EURIBOR / OIS continues to tighten, down to 78.5 basis points. 20 basis points could be considered “normalcy” in the European banking sector. Still, it has come in over 21 basis points in 6 weeks.
Filed under: Earnings Announcements, Economic data, Economy, Federal Reserve |
All Things in Moderation 
Funny. I read your question (the next bubble) and even before reading the next word, I thought farm land. I also remember reading an article (in the Economist, I think) about a company that had been trading in copper and got out of the metal and into futures instead. Much easier to deal with. Says a lot, I think.
BB
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We saw “Wicked” last night at the Bass Concert Hall in Austin. It was very entertaining. The cast and scenery were all great. The music though contained nothing one could hummmm on the way out.
I haven’t been to a touring Broadway show in years. The last was “Big River” (Roger Miller songs and the great song “Guvment”) and before that was Annie (saw in 1976 and it was really good).
What a big relief from politics.
The people watch was fun as well. The way some people dressed or thought looked good was quite a hoot.
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North Carolina Gov. Bev Perdue (D) will announce today that she will not seek reelection in 2012. This creates an open race in a state that’s should factor into the presidential one.
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Could someone explain what you mean by a bubble in farmland?
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What I’ve seen about farmland is that its already headed towards the bubble. What’s cheap now that hasn’t bubbled in the last 20 years?
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The farm I grew up on is now a state park.
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I lived on a farm in MA for abut a year. I had chores and even fell in the sour milk pond. It was grassed over and who knew?
The farm was sold for millions a long time ago.
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lms:
This should explain it:
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So you’re talking about the actual land. Is it the sale of the land and how it’s packaged that creates the bubble or what the land is used for after it’s sold.
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We had a neighboring community that was primarily large dairy parcels when we moved here over 30 years ago. It’s all been sold and used for housing. But I don’t see how that creates a bubble?
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Picture if you will (as Rod Serling would say) All the oil wells in the world going off line one at a time. You would still have the same need for oil, so that every one left in operation would become a little more valuable.
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Oh and to make it a bubble, you need low interest rates so as to encourage competition for the remaining prorperties.
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So it’s food?
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Yes, empty land by itself has no market per se. It’s the ARABLE land that creates the value in this case.
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I guess Robert Shiller was one of the first to take a stab at this last March. I get it now, it’s the price of the land that creates the bubble. Is there enough to really cause that much of an issue for the rest of us?
Though it is difficult to spot where the next big market bubbles will take place Yale economist Robert Shiller has taken a stab at it and has a hunch the next bubble will be in farmland.
Shiller describes farmland as a “dark horse” bubble candidate, not only because of the the recent boom in land prices in the U.S. and UK, but because the environment is similar to the 1970s in the U.S. when a food price scare sparked the last farmland bubble.
Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-03-23/markets/30050442_1_home-prices-farm-prices-farmland-bubble#ixzz1kZyBkj4m
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I’m trying to get my head around this farmland bubble. So it’s the low interest rates, the availability of farmland at rising prices and a scarce commodity or rising commodity price. My question is, if everyone sees the farmland bubble coming isn’t there something in place to prevent it? Wouldn’t investors be afraid to be on the collapsing side of the bubble? Or is that left to the rest of us to deal with?
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It’s called “The Greater Fool Theory” of investing
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lol john, how does that make you feel as an investor? The only reason I care about this stuff is in how it affects the overall economy and the middle class, if it does or will. Obviously, many people saw the housing bubble and predicted the crash, lots of innocent bystanders were harmed and I’m trying to figure out what the danger is here, other than to those fools doing the speculating, I mean investing.
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And BTW, I’m very disappointed you haven’t commented on my new avatar……….
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I actually couldn’t see it without my reading glasses until now.
It’s a damn shame in some respects that we made fun of George HW Bush, since he was soooo much smarter than his son.
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I’m not sure I buy the “George Bush was dumb” argument. I think, perhaps, H.W. was more cautious or more judicious in the use of his office, but that’s not necessarily smarter, in a general sense.
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“Wouldn’t investors be afraid to be on the collapsing side of the bubble? ”
They’d rather make money by timing it properly, given that the Fed has incentivized them to take the risk by eliminating any return on saving money via the interest rates changes.
Remember: “This Time is Different”
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Doesn’t there need to be some “irrational exuberance” to create a genuine bubble.
I couldn’t bring myself to take my dentist friends into real estate in the mid oughts because the numbers simply didn’t make sense. Purchasing an 8 unit apartment building that required more investment every year..IE it loses money every year because rents were not high enough to cover expenses, meaning the ROI annually doesn’t justify the price paid. To me that is a prime ingredient in a bubble. The prices don’t truly reflect the value.
Now if folks are purchasing farmland and the sale of the crops does not provide a return on that investment then we are into speculation are we not. IE As long as the price of food keeps climbing and climbing, and the source of producing that commodity is limited, isn’t that what is really driving the price of farmland? If not and it’s simply more speculation…then I would agree there’s a potential bubble in the making.
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Speculation exactly.
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Exactly the case when I sold my duplex. No way can the rents support what he paid…
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But of course the lure bsimon as you well know is the belief that either the sale prices will continue to rise..we saw that bubble burst…or that rents will increase in the future.
The only investment real estate my wife and I hold other than her office building where she practices, is a duplex.
When we purchased it in 02 I had to eat a negative cash flow for about two years. Then the market exploded and the value of our duplex literally doubled! Value? I should say “appraised value”. Of course since the collapse it has dropped 40%..of course that is 40% from it’s peak or overinflated price…which means we’re still 20% ahead of what we paid…but considering how long we’ve held it the IRR probably sucks.
Having said that..the rents have continued to climb and so now we have it cash flowing nicely…and so i consider the investment to still be worthwhile. We didn’t buy it to flip it or cash in on appreciation, we bought it for long term income in our retirement and in that sense it’s performed very nicely despite the real estate collapse.
But then you may have missed the thread where lmsinca were sharing our problems with tenant and that’s the other side of the coin. LOL
BTW lmsinca how is that going for you? Is the eviction completed?
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ruk, it’s an ongoing drama with the lawyer, and I have considerable doubts that it will either be expedited or easy at this point. We persevere. It only cost another $170 this week though…..lol. I’m terrified to discover what the inside will look like when we get it back. Other than that, a tiny amount in the market and SS, that’s it for us once we retire. I think we may have spent too much money on our kids along the way, wonder if they’d mind if we send them a bill……….?
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“I’ve always admired car owners and I hope to be one myself as soon as I finish paying off mother. She insists I pay her retroactively for the food I ate as a child.” Principal Skinner.
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Ironically, that’s a stipulation I plan on putting on my own children. Retirement, covered!
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lmsinca
I get one of my units back at the end of the month. I’ve given the guy January free so he is appreciative. He’s heading back to N.Y. he just can’t seem to eat his pride and work for $10 an hour. I told him I understand…in Florida you get paid in sunshine not dollars. I think he’ll leave it in good shape.
I feel your pain…on all fronts. Luckily my son married well! LOL
The other day I was chastising both he and myself as being horrible underachievers…he laughed and said what do you mean dad we both found great women who had some cash, we married well!
And so this has removed a large burden of “grandchildren” spending which some folks love to overdo…my daughter in law’s parents inherited quite a bit and so there’s no need for us to even enter that arena..her parents have already funded large trusts for my two grandchildren’s college educations and they provide every toy able to be found at Toys R Us. In fact my son’s greatest concern is how to make sure the kids aren’t spoiled rotten. .
At the end of the day, frequently it’s better to be lucky than anything else in life and thank heavens I was born with the luck of the Irish. I truly am an incredibly lucky guy!!!
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“lmsinca, on January 26, 2012 at 10:51 am said:
…
I’m terrified to discover what the inside will look like when we get it back.”
“RUK, on January 26, 2012 at 11:06 am said:
…
he just can’t seem to eat his pride and work for $10 an hour. ”
Deep down inside of each of you are Republicans waiting to get out, I just know it. All it will take is a few more bad tenants apiece.
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Just because they’re liberals doesn’t mean they don’t have standards, you snooty Republican, you! 😉
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Never.gonna.happen.jnc. I was born a damn hippie and I’ll die one. I’m just full of inconsistencies….feel free to ask Scott all about it.
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How much time have you got?
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“Doesn’t there need to be some “irrational exuberance” to create a genuine bubble.”
Desperation to get away from 0% yields will suffice in this case.
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I read somewhere, last month I think and can’t find it now, that commodity prices have or had rolled over and so the rise in farmland prices had seen better days. Is that wrong or are we still looking at a growing bubble? It just doesn’t seem like much of a bubble to me. It’s funny though, I see definitive statements all the time regarding financial and economic projections that either fail to materialize or actually go in the opposite direction. Big ole guessing game. I guess that’s why some lose and some win, betting on the guess.
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it won’t be for most of 2012, because their is no demand pressure yet.
Here’s the “proof’ or at least the support. Since yesterday, the banks both national and regional are down in price, while Freeport McMoran one of the world’s largest producers of gold and copper is up about 8-9%.
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Lms – there are lots of variables, not just weather & currency fluctuations, but a growing middle class in Asia & resulting increase in demand for meats which increases the requirement for crops. I.e. livestock eats food crops too, SSL an increased demand for meat means increased demands for non-meat crops. Add dwindling fisheries & rising crop prices (and thus farmland prices) seems like a no brainer. Then a black swan comes along, the bubble collapses & investors everywhere say “this time I really learned my lesson…”
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Thanks bsimon, that’s a good explanation. I don’t think I could take another bursting bubble if it affects us personally, so hopefully it’s only “investors everywhere” who take the hit on this one. They’re on their own.
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I saw a piece on the farmland bubble recently. Many of the folks buying up this land in Iowa (The piece was a sidebar story to the R caucus there) are themselves 2nd and 3rd generation Iowa farmers. They seemed to know what they are doing. If it’s being fueled by lots of outside folks..again just speculating…then it’s a bad thing. But if it’s a 3rd generation farmer simply expanding his production capabilities then I’m far more sanguine about what is happening.
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For those who enjoy economic theory.
“Why Won’t The Fed Tell Congress the Truth About Our Debt?”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46148704
These guys will replace Keynesians at some future point.
Key Point:
“The Fed knows debt management is nothing more than shifting dollar balances between reserve accounts at the fed to securities accounts at the Fed, and that paying off the debt is nothing more than shifting dollar balances from securities accounts at the Fed to reserve accounts at the Fed, with no grand children involved.”
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OK can I vent a bit. I’ve just completed payroll for this week.
The R’s love to fuss and fume about regulations and “uncertainty” in the rules.
Yeah…well then back it up…this payroll tax business is starting to worry me…not only because of what it’ll mean to my employees paychecks..the first consideration..but also whether I’m going to have to redo my spreadsheets….as Forrest Gump would say…again!
These bozos are going to run this right up against it aren’t they. The cut is only good through the end of Feb right? If these morons run this into March…forcing me to go back to the old spread sheet for two weeks and then come up with the cut two weeks later…do these people in DC ever think about the consequences of their actions.
How about that NOVA? Just got off a good anti-government rant for you. 🙂
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“do these people in DC ever think about the consequences of their actions.”
I give you RC Dean, a commenter at Reason’s Hit and Run and his Iron Laws .. see law 7:
1. You get more of what you reward and less of what you punish.
2. Money and power will always find each other.
3. If everything is a priority, nothing is a priority.
4. The less you know about something, the easier it looks.
5. You aren’t free unless you are free to be wrong.
6. Me today, you tomorrow.
7. Foreseeable consequences are not unintended.
They’ve got you good and mad and likely to accept whatever they come up with to make the payroll nonsense stop.
but +1 on the rant.
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ruk:
You sound like your turning libertarian at least!
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You just articulated, in a microcosm, one of the big arguments against complex taxes and especially fiddly taxes and regulations.
Welcome to the dark side.
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Welcome to the dark side.
That’s what my daughter said when I signed up for facebook.
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lms:
That’s what my daughter said when I signed up for facebook.
I would have thought that’s what you said to her when she signed up with an oil corporation.
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Haaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa, different daughter scott. It is rather comical though isn’t it? She’s still a liberal though and we have one thing in common, we both get heat occasionally from our friends for our choices.
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“fiddly”?
Man QB, I like the mellow version of you, but this is downright Mary Poppins-like!
(glad you enjoyed the show this early morning on PL. I was having fun)
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Practically perfect in every way!
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That “spin” comment over there took the cake, john. lol
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As for the mellow side of me, you know, enough yelling at me by lms over a sustained few days usually beats me into submission. : )
(Kidding!)
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De acuerdo (agreed). If I were to pick the most disappointing aspect of SOTU was the move toward even more complication.
Two ideas. Corporate rate of taxation = zero. Couple that with indexing capital gains and treating them as ordinary income. [Go ahead and adjust rates as needed.]
BB
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enough yelling at me by lms over a sustained few days usually beats me into submission. : )
Yes I’m sure that’s it. And why are we suddenly all using nested replies……even Scott? I thought we hated them, when MsJS gets back over here she’ll be pissed and then you’ll really know what hit you.
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lms:
And why are we suddenly all using nested replies……even Scott?
Funny you should ask. It is actually a bit of a conundrum.
So, because of the irritation of nested replies, rather then follow the comments on the post page itself, I am reading all the comments in the dashboard where they appear in time order rather than nested. And the dashboard, conveniently enough (and unlike blogger), allows you to actually reply to comments from within the dashboard itself. But when you do so, it nests your comment as a reply.
So, in order to avoid having to deal with the nested replies, I end up nesting my own replies. Makes perfect sense. I blame Kevin.
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I do the same thing. I’m actually doing it now. Heh.
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Kevin:
I do the same thing.
Well isn’t that something. The guy who implemented the nested threads and thinks they are awesome actually avoids them. Maybe we should start calling you Warren.
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…do these people in DC ever think about the consequences of their actions.
Only to the degree they can be convinced that they will impact their re-election possibilities.
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That’s a concern for about 50-60 members. by design.
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Time to outsource payroll.
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I just noticed the quote of the day.
Kudos.
OT: I still hate “quote” as a noun.
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do you prefer quotation?
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yes
I am a language conservative, too. Quote, as a noun, is really slang at best. I’m sure the young barbarians will be happy to see the tide of history rise over my raised and clenched fist.
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My biggest complaint is the singular use of “their” — as in “everyone take out their book”
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qb:
I still hate “quote” as a noun.
Damn, you are right. Can’t believe I did that. Consider it fixed.
Fixing it also has the extra beneficial effect of making the header more symmetric, rather than have “day” hanging by itself on one line.
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Yes I’m sure that’s it. And why are we suddenly all using nested replies……even Scott? I thought we hated them, when MsJS gets back over here she’ll be pissed and then you’ll really know what hit you.
Indeed, I was just about to rebel and remind all that nesting sucks.
But then I was afraid Kevin would start yelling again.
Consider this my declaration of comment independence. Death to nesting!
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But then I was afraid Kevin would start yelling again.
Victory!
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john/banned and everyone else for that matter…
“You sound like your turning libertarian at least!”
Been there done that! 🙂 That’s why I relate to NOVA..not only his broadcasting background but when I was his age I pretty much thought as he does now.
I’m wondering if others here have undergone some serious political rethinking as they’ve aged. I’ll go first because when one admits to changing their mind or evolving they can take some real abuse….but if I’m in the kitchen I can stand the heat.
I was raised in a poor Irish Catholic family. Guess which party I was raised to love…of course the Dems…and especially the Kennedy Dems..
Then I went to Vietnam…came back and finished school and began my broadcasting career. I went through a period from about 25-35 where I was a libertarian. When Jimmy Carter defeated Ford I almost wept..literally. My salary was just beginning to climb and I was looking forward to finally bursting through the cap and avoiding FICA on some of my income. As I suspected the FICA cap grew and always eluded me except for perhaps a year or two.
Fast forward to 40. I was a Republican. By late 40’s I was what I could call a “Kevin” independent. My last R vote however was for GWB’s first term.
During all that time I would have been considered a disinterested low info voter. I was into far more “important” stuff…my career,,, to have been consumed with reading Hayek or Keynes much less Marx or any current thinkers.
By my mid 50’s I had started reading…and reading..and observing..and thinking… and I became a progressive…ohhhh the horrors. This is not to suggest that anybody but progressives read a lot or think a lot about politics…just my personal journey.
When I think back on all my accomplishments…yeah there was one year where I worked from Jan 1st through St. Patrick’s Day without a day off…but it wasn’t really work ..it was a labor of love. And I realize that my entire life has been changed by things like my father winning a large poker game and moving me from the white ghetto to a town with defacto segregation. My fellow students were children of Lawyers, Docs other professionals who looked down on smoking and admired those who made good grades instead of beating them up and calling them pussies as had occurred in the schools I attended until the 3rd grade.
Ultimately I realized that my achievements are largely gifts…I was born very handsome, incredibly intelligent, a varsity letterman, great athlete, with a reasonable work ethic, and in a neighborhood school system that was excellent. How’s that for my Kevin Willis impersonation? 🙂
I could add I was born as a white male..but I don’t wish to reignite any debate of the “isms” In a nutshell I’ve only been deluding myself to think I was something special.
I have been mind numbingly LUCKY….yep the luck of the Irish is a real thing!
And so..anybody else with a similar experience…changing parties..ideologies?
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I could add I was born as a white male..
Are you sure? Perhaps you should double-check. You don’t want to make the same mistake I made. 😉
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I’m afraid to ask Kevin…was it a gender or racial mistake? LOL
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Both. Boy, was I embarrassed.
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Yes, do tell, Kevin. Which one were you mistaken about???
😀
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I have this vision of a certain Dave Chapelle episode.
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I still hate “quote” as a noun.
Damn, you are right. Can’t believe I did that. Consider it fixed.
Damn, you guys are big nerds.
Moving on….maybe this is an oversimplification, but as long as the interest rate is so low isn’t a bubble, farmland or other, almost inevitable?
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Damn, you guys are big nerds.
Spoken like a young barbarian.
You are a Dad now; you will eventually realize the errors of your rash youth.
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In a nutshell I’ve only been deluding myself to think I was something special.
I have been mind numbingly LUCKY….yep the luck of the Irish is a real thing!
I think you’re being a little hard on yourself if you attribute too much success to luck. If you consider what socio-economic status you are born into to be luck, then I’ll agree that luck contributes pretty significantly to success. But that aside, it’s hard to imagine that any single person is luckier than anyone else. I could give anecdotal evidence to support that belief, but I’m too busy with the job I was lucky enough to land. ‘)
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Luck: all sorts of people are at the right place at the right time. While luck is when preparedness meets opportunity, being at the right place at the right time and stumbling into doing just the right thing has an element of luck. Yet, I don’t think anyone should be punished for that, nor do I think legislating luck is likely to get very far. 😉
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scott and kevin
I do the same thing.
I do to, especially when I’m working. It’s easier to follow the conversation. But then when you go to the actual thread it’s a mess, IMO. And you can’t generate a new comment from the dashboard so there’s that also. A dilemma. I like the convenience but not sure I like the results. So many decisions and so little time.
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Q.B.
Sorry I didn’t know you valued language so much. I share your value even though it’s not apparent in my posts. As I’ve gotten older I realize that all the jokes about what one forgets are becoming reality in my life…yeaooow!!! Worst of all for some reason my fingers or brain or whatever, frequently mistype homophones…IE I know the difference between they’re, there, and their but sometimes my brain just shorts out.
And here is another typo I frequently see in my posts…my fingers often add a d to an making it and which obviously is totally different than an.
And so here’s the deal to cover my arse for offending your language sensibilities, which I do respect, remember I’m an old dude not a young barbarian. If we could have a preview feature I’d go back and clean it up. Sometimes when I have time I do use notepad and produce some more literate responses…otherwise…sorry dude..you’re just going to have to groan or scroll….
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an/and…………..thing/think
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Be careful lmsinca or folks will think you are as old as me…at least we can make okie feel younger!
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Luckily for us Mark’s still the oldest……….
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Scott-
Kevin:
I do the same thing.
Well isn’t that something. The guy who implemented the nested threads and thinks they are awesome actually avoids them.
Maybe Kevin was just saying he blames himself?
Posting comments through the dashboard is way easier. It seems idiotic that you can’t post a new comment from there though.
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ashot:
Maybe Kevin was just saying he blames himself?
I like that interpretation. Let’s go with that, then.
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Scott:
ascot’s just trying to goad Kevin into a fight.
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Mich:
ascot’s just trying to goad Kevin into a fight.
Well, it’s been so long since we had a good one.
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Badda bing!
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Maybe we should pre-schedule them, so people know in advance whether they want to attend or not….you know….like a dinner party.
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I think that I would be a little worried if I was a member of Congress right now and saw this poll. When people are saying they’ll vote their own member out I think the tide may have actually turned. . .
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we should set the re-election rate at 85% — that’s what it was in 2010. I’ll take over.
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I’ll take over
What? Congress? The country? The world?? 🙂
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oh, man, what a fun typo.
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oh, man, what a fun typo.
If you refer to ashot’s new “ascot” handle, you must have missed the funny discussion on another thread. Not a typo.
This comment actually is a test of where a reply from comments on dashboard ends up on the thread: in chronological order regardless, or under the comment to which one is replying regardless of chronological order.
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okie:
This comment actually is a test
At the bottom. I did the same test. Now, all is right in the world. Except if you try to go back and read an old, nested thread, which has now been de-nested, and is therefore unintelligible.
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Wicked is a great show. While few Broadway shows have hummable tunes anymore, Wicked does have a few that have become classics already. “Defying Gravity” and “Popular” are two of my favorites.
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Okay, okay. I say we take a vote. Who wants to try turning off nested comments for a while, and see if we prefer that? And does anybody want to go newest to oldest, while we’re at it?
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I vote to turn them off. ignore the irony of this post.
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I like newest to oldest; I’m trying out the commenting from the dashboard thing and that’s kind of cool. We can have the best of both worlds if the non-nesters comment from here and the nesters comment from the blog page. 🙂
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I suspect, based on what I’m watching go on, comment replies made in the dashboard will be inserted after the comment they are a reply to, even when nested comments are turned off. So it won’t be strictly linear. I’m interested in giving it a try, though.
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I vote to give it a try. I vote against going newest to oldest though.
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My reply to you just now over here on the Dashboard went under your comment that I was replying to.
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kevin:
I hate democracy Be a dictator.
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Give it a try Kevin……no preference here re oldest/newest
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Now, this is interesting (re nesting v not, and commenting from dashboard v blog page): when you nest your replies here on the blog page they appear in chronological order, and only go in three deep.
When you reply on the dashboard, even to a nested comment that’s already the third level in, it places it under the comment you replied to rather than in chronological order.
That’s a very confusing sentence. . . see what I mean (from the blog rather than the dashboard) in the series of comments starting with RUK’s post at 12:40. When you get down to the exchanges about Kevin’s confusion they get out of chronological order because Kevin replied to RUK on the dashboard after I had done so on the blog page.
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Mich:
When you reply on the dashboard, even to a nested comment that’s already the third level in, it places it under the comment you replied to rather than in chronological order.
Hmmm. That is interesting. And confusing. I wonder what will happen to dashboard generated comments if nesting is turned off entirely. Ideally they would just be put in chronological order. But I wonder.
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lms:
Maybe we should pre-schedule them, so people know in advance whether they want to attend or not….you know….like a dinner party.
You are cordially invited:
Cocktails at 7pm, Open Bar
Dinner at 8pm, choice of chicken or salmon
Imbroglio to commence sharply at 8:40, Resolved: ScottC is an asshole
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I’ve turned off nesting. Not sure if it will come back if I turn it back on. What do we think? I miss the “Reply” option with each comment, but . . .
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Meaning, I’m not sure if historical nesting will return. I assume it will.
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testing from the dashboard
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I tried my 3:07 as a reply to kevin’s 3:06, and it makes a new comment……interesting. So nesting would be completely gone.
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Does it seem slower to anyone else?
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And anyone reading past comments will be highly confused as to who is replying to whom as we don’t always use names for a reply or even the context. I’m just making observations, not weighing in on the options yet.
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Whoa. Go away for a while and stuff changes. No more nesting? It’s weird to try to read replies now. Well, except for Scott’s because he bolds.
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Mike:
It’s weird to try to read replies now. Well, except for Scott’s because he bolds.
And here I thought it was because I was so clear and logical.
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LMAO Just back and now this thread takes some real mental gymnastics. If you go without nesting won’t that mean we all will have to ID who were responding to..such as
Scott@ time stamp…response
Kevin @time stamp…response.
I’m not offering this as a solution but rather a question. But again there are at least four of us over 60…gotta KISS. 🙂
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We can always put it back. Though I use the comment dashboard, I think I prefer nested comments. The thoughts of others?
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lmsinca Yes it did seem a bit slower…but after PL it’s still lightning fast.
BTW when can you guys add that “network error” box that makes us wonder if we have to wait another five minutes, or open another browser to see if something really posts. You’re not making it challenging enough…snark alert
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I think it’s better the other way for the convenience of everyone. Doesn’t it seem slower this way to you Kevin, from the time you hit post comment until it actually posts?
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I think it’s better the other way for the convenience of everyone.
Well it’s particularly easy to bold from the dashboard. You just highlight and click on “b”. So it wouldn’t be unreasonable to ask people to adopt Scott’s bolding technique provided everyone is an admin. Bolding is a bit more cumbersome if you aren’t an admin, but typing out the html code isn’t that difficult. We could give it a few days to see how it works, although that prolongs the decision making progress.
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So it wouldn’t be unreasonable to ask people to adopt Scott’s bolding technique provided everyone is an admin.
I don’t think everyone who can comment is going to be an admin, long-term. We do want to attract participants, but not everybody is going to become an admin, I don’t think.
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Doesn’t it seem slower this way to you Kevin, from the time you hit post comment until it actually posts?
A little, but I’m okay with it. I think I just like the nest threads better, even if sometimes little gems get lost in the nests. 😉
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You are cordially invited:
Cocktails at 7pm, Open Bar
Dinner at 8pm, choice of chicken or salmon
Imbroglio to commence sharply at 8:40, Resolved: ScottC is an asshole
I’ll be there, sounds interesting. What? No vegetarian plate?
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lms:
What? No vegetarian plate?
Absolutely not. This is my dinner party. Hence the topic of debate.
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Ash
I was thinking mostly of the people who aren’t editor/admin. We have more than just a few and some of them are having wordpress issues and whatnot. Either way is fine for me though.
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Whoa!! Everything’s out of order now.
And, ascot: So it wouldn’t be unreasonable to ask people to adopt Scott’s bolding technique provided everyone is an admin.
After all that work I put into the FAQ, nobody has even looked at them. . . excuse me *sniff*. . . I’m just going to wander over here into the corner. . . *sniff*. . . and eat some worms. . . *SNIFF*
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Scott
I think I’ll make mine a Dessert/Champagne Debate
Question:
Is President Obama, in fact, a Christian?
I was thinking the desserts and champagne would bring a few people in.
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Resolved: ScottC is an asshole
Did we ever find someone to take the con or did the debate get called by forfeit? 🙂
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Except if you try to go back and read an old, nested thread, which has now been de-nested, and is therefore unintelligible.
Yup, but if we don’t flip back and forth between nested and not, that issue should be diminished over time. I still vote for not nested (if we’re voting).
Scott, continued excellent work on the quotation of the day! Sorry, I long ago gave up being so language particular, but I certainly understand it. I don’t think “quotation of the day” has quite the same ring to it, but I’m ambivalent about what it’s called. Maybe it should be “moderate quotation of the day.”
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okie:
Scott, continued excellent work on the quotation of the day!
Thanks. lms sent me today’s quote. Having a degree in economics, I quite liked it.
Sorry, I long ago gave up being so language particular, but I certainly understand it.
You know me….not very fastidious at all about what words are used.
I had thought about how to work in the theme of the blog into the header, but Moderately Quotable Words of the Day seemed a bit of a mouthful.
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You know me….not very fastidious at all about what words are used.
LMAO a thousand times! Your dry sense of humor can be so misleading.
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