Brent Nyitray
Fairlington Blade
Let the mutherfuker burn!
jnc4p
Kevin S. Willis
Michigoose
lmsinca
markinaustin
Arcanaut
novahockey
quarterback
ScottC
yellojktJohn Wayne loved America:
Ronaldus Magnus upon his inauguration:
Rick Perry? Herman Cain? Pikers, next to Ronaldus Magnus.
And they called this guy an idiot. Never mind. Don’t get me started.
•••
Veteran tributes! Toby Keith’s “American Soldier”:
Trace Adkins “Arlington” (yes, it makes me teary-eyed, whatever that says about me, there it is):
That’s it. Busy day for me, busy weekend ahead. I’ll drop in, if I can. — KW
Filed under: Veterans Day | Tagged: ronald reagan |
All Things in Moderation 
Thanks for this, kevin.I've never particularly been a John Wayne fan (heresy, I know), but I l-o-v-e-d this. It is so true.Absolutely not a Reagan fan. He brought us some horrible times here in OK, and I firmly believe we would be a better country now if he had not been President (double heresy, I know, and do not want to start an argument about that). And just to finish the trifecta of heresy, at least around here, not particularly a Toby Keith fan.But I almost had to get out the hanky, in a good way, for Trace Adkins.You chose a good selection to honor our veterans.
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Where is Mr. Troll? I would love to hear his story too.
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Only one quibble, Kevin, and it's not with you.There was only one photo of a woman in that whole Toby Keith video. There are far more women serving today–and in even closer to the front line than I was, and I was at the tip of the spear when I was in–and that video is just lacking.Having said that, thanks for those two songs. They're two of my favorites. I've forgiven Toby Keith for for his early support of the Iraq War.
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And where is McWing???? We'd talked about it and I know he'd been planning a post, so I hope all is right in his part of the world.
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Okie: your wrong about things being worse because of Reagan, at least if our only other options were Carter and Mondale. I'll stand by that.:)Toby Keith video: good point, MG. Very male centric video. A fair criticism, especial from someone whose worn the uniform. I just like the song. Semper fi and excelsior!
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Kevin: Good for you (no sarcasm). And I too will stand by my statement. 🙂 But we will never know. Great video selection nonetheless.
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HaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaI went over to plumline to read the morning plum, forgetting it was Sat. and an open thread, Greg put this up.For some of the best, most illuminating, most entertaining, and least forgiving (which is a good thing) commenters on the Internets.Great Posts yesterday (here), but I missed McWing as well. We couldn't get out to Riverside National yesterday because of work but we're going out there later this morning to see all the flags, flowers and tributes. And say a little prayer for my folks.
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And btw, I live in CA, so no I wasn't a Romney fan. To each his own though.
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I guess I need coffee still, Romney=Reagan
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Good morning, lms. I hope you enjoy your day at Riverside National. I'll be out pretty soon to finish my house painting (have a feeling this will be my last chance before Thanksgiving prep and winter weather take over).I too saw the PL statement this morning by GS and laughed. Can you imagine how ugly that place is going to get as the election gets closer? Yeehaw. It is now pretty much dominated by three of my least favorite commenters. I would go back sometimes if beachbum and ddawd would ever leave. As if.Are you talking about Romney or Reagan?FWIW, my early comment about not caring for Toby Keith "here" meant OKC. He grew up in OKC metro area,still lives around here and is a very active supporter of OU and some actually good charities around here. But I'm not a country music fan, and I especially do not like his political opinions.
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lol, our comments about Romney/Reagan crossed in the ether.
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Okie, I was just thinking this morning about how close Thanksgiving is, I need to get cracking on my fall cleaning and begin some Christmas tradition baking etc. My oldest is coming over tomorrow and we're making our loofah soaps that everyone looks forward to and tonight I'm making pomegranate jelly. I have pomegranates larger than grapefruits this year. Good luck on the painting, it's raining here.
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"I too saw the PL statement this morning by GS and laughed. Can you imagine how ugly that place is going to get as the election gets closer?"I was curious enough to click the census poverty link a certain commenter posted on the HH thread and posted a dismantling of his interpretation just before Greg posted that.I'm sure a nuclear flaming is in the works. I might bother to look for it but have lots of work to do.I am no Toby Keith fan, but Reagan largely saved the country, or at least put of its demise, despite the scope of work he left unfinished. 1980 was not a good time.
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Lol, indeed, he hit me with an extended name-calling harangue completely ignoring the facts. Amazing display.
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qb, now I'll have to go check out the flaming. Bad on you. 🙂 But IMHO, you post intentionally inflammatory comments at PL and then wonder why they pile on? Self-fulfilling prophecy. That said, those threads usually have entertainment value for me and since I usually disagree with you, they cause me to tighten up my thinking many times.The 80s were a horrendous time in OK. We were hit very hard by the S&L fiasco and the oil bust. Absolutely no jobs (I was one of the ones downsized out at the time) and I've never seen so many boarded up houses here in the most affluent areas.
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qb, now that I have read it, that was not what I would consider to be an intentionally inflammatory comment, you heartless fool and despicable human being you. (Not to be interpreted as saying I agree with your comment.)
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Okie – despite his support for the Iraq war – I thought I read somewhere Toby Keith was a Dem?
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Good morning, scat. Keith used to be a Dem but not long ago (don't remember exactly when) changed to an Ind with much ado denigrating the Dems. He was a Palin supporter in 2008, and I think that summarizes it.
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Ugghhh I can hardly stomach Toby Keith.Since those vitriolic posters respond to QB the same way regardless of what he posts or how he says it, I am inclined to tell QB to egg them on all he wants.Not sure if anyone watched the Carrier Classic game last night (rough for MSU) but Obama managed to answer a few questions without a teleprompter quite welI thought 😉
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Good morning.Since I got prompted, I went over and looked at Greg's little self-promotion to the open thread. Yeah, he says he's honoring the commenters, but he's just spreading a layer of self-promotional hooie out to encourage the regulars who are left to stick around.I smell a bit of desperation.
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Okie, the poverty chart takes some study, but do you think it supports his argument?I think it wildly misrepresents the data, not even to mention what he implies about causes and effects. And when you start to look at what he is suggesting about policy causes, it gets worse. The war on poverty didn't start in 1959, but tax cuts came in 1960. The war on poverty and the expansion of the federal government kept growing right up to Reagan, but povery was going back up by then. Indeed, it didn't decline at all during the height of anti-poverty activism and was going back up by its end. It went down when Reagan's policies went into effect. And in the 1990s, when it was again declining, Republicans ran Congress and largely drove the agenda.I personally don't think poverty will or can ever be ended. It is part of the human condition. It can be made worse or better, but this constant claim that LBJ crushed it and Reagan brought it back is ludicrous.
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Okie – thanks for the clarification. Dem or not – he'd always come across as a bit of an ass.
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"Since those vitriolic posters respond to QB the same way regardless of what he posts or how he says it, I am inclined to tell QB to egg them on all he wants."Everyone knows I like to argue, and it's true that at this point it amuses me when certain people respond to whatever I say with ironic name calling, etc. I will be a little more snarky there than here, but mostly I snark at Greg. Over the past several years, I think he has become so rabidly partisan and cliched that it seems appropriate. I tried posing serious questions at one time, but it's of no use. I used to try to maintain serious discussions with certain commenters, too, but I realized long ago that none of the folks still there have any interest in it. It's just funny to me to be called a heartless, blind ideologue, liar, disgregarder of facts, imtemperate, ad hominem attack artist, etc. by people who seem ready to have a genuine psychological breakdown. Maybe I'm a little twisted.
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qb, I did not check out the link and will not have time to do so this morning so cannot enter into an informed debate on that specific item. But over the years I have formulated some pretty strong general opinions about the poverty issue that I am sure would make you cringe. I do strongly agree with you that we will never end poverty but can make it worse or better. I do not think anything we have attempted to date from either side of the spectrum has been a magic solution.I've been thinking lately about how the 90s welfare reform is related to current raise-taxes-on-the-wealthy debate and most particularly the meme that 47% pay no taxes. How much of 47% not paying taxes is due to the earned income credit that was a lynchpin of the 90s welfare reform? Is it an instance of incrementally doing away with all assistance? I want to do some research on how those are related (and not even sure I am remembering all of this correctly — the joys of advancing age). It might be worth a post here.
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qb@8:05 — You forgot to include that you are a Wal-Mart greeter and not an attorney.
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Greg's little blurb struck me as a tad too sycophantic, and I would have hoped he'd be above that. I disagree with qb that he's gotten more partisan (it has always been a partisan blog and I don't think Greg's punditry has gotten any more so, just the commenting in the threads).L'eau du desperation, as MsJS said.
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Re Toby Keith's evolution, I don't follow the guy but have heard something like that.I suppose we have to respect to a point the ability of people to revise and change their views as they grow and learn, but he seems more of the kind who might not know what he really believes and is inconstant and confused. Don't know, just an impression. There are people like the original neocons who arrive at new positions through serious reflection and thought. Reagan in reality fits this mold to a large degree. He is regarded as the paradigmatic conservative, but in truth he was more of a New Deal Democrat who rethought the extremes of liberalism.Then there are the people who this year are Rs and next year are Ds and 5 years later might flip flop again. Keith could be somewhere in between, but there is nothing that gives much of an impression of deep thought behind his evolution. Maybe there is.
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Michi,I agree PL was always partisan, clearly. I showed up when he was going after Dick Cheney. It is just my belief that over time the posts have become more extreme, more prone to twisting the facts, more limited to banal talking points, etc. Everyone's got an opinion. That's just mine.
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ashot, I did not see the game or Obama last night and have not read anything about it. What were the question topics?
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Someone over here said s/he thought Greg had declined of late (past few months). I agree.Since about August he seems more shrill and less clever in his analysis/observations. He's very angry that the media aren't doing more reporting on issues he holds dear. He seems to be spending less time on PL, too (we get a lot more Jonathan these days). I sometimes wonder whether something's up in his personal life.Never listened to Toby Keith. Einstein said, "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” I view poverty in that light. Solutions exist, but are not within humanity's current thinking to grasp.
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The questions were the generic veteran's day type questions although I liked how he brought up the families and continuing to help veterans when hey get home. He didn't say anything profound but he dd not have a teleprmpter so I thought I would point it out…in a half joking way.
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MsJS: that was me who said he didn't seem to be himself any more, and I, too, have been wondering if it's a personal or professional issue.qb: TK also strikes me as somebody who flaps with the wind, he's just got a high flag pole on a hill (to continue the metaphor) to do it on. He was so hyper-partisan about the Iraq war in the beginning (he was the one who started the whole Dixie Chicks brouhaha), but I give him credit for also publicly changing his opinion on that. okie clearly has the view from the ground on this one since he still lives in OKC.Our paths didn't cross much this week, how was your's, qb?
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MsJS, I'm with you and michi (and others?) who have noticed a change in PL blog, and especially the increasing number of Jonathan subs. Have also wondered what is going on behind the scenes and noticed a possible correlation to when the commenting platform blew up.I liked your Einstein quote and comment on the poverty issue. I hope you did not mean we should not try to address the issue, even if we are not perfect.
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And good morning, michi!
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s-cat:Okie – despite his support for the Iraq war – I thought I read somewhere Toby Keith was a Dem?Not sure why you say "despite". Lots of Dems supported the Iraq War. At least until things got difficult.
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michi,Flaps with the wind–as usual a more direct way to say it. Someone like TK might deserve more credit than that, since most people don't spend all their time thinking politics and examining their souls, but it feels like blowing with the breeze.Stressful week for me, mostly. Too much work, not enough of it paying. How about you?
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okie, IMO, it's in trying to address the issue that the disagreements arise. I'm not inclined to debate it but if others want to, please do so.ScottC, you're right. A lot of Dems initially supported the Iraq war.
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MsJS:Einstein said, "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” I view poverty in that light.We didn't "create" the problem of poverty. Poverty is the natural condition for humans. Solutions exist, but are not within humanity's current thinking to grasp.The fact that for the vast majority of Americans poverty is something we have help other people overcome shows that not only are "solutions" within our grasp, we have already implemented them.
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Michi (and anybody else who might remotely be interested), I have a super simple and fast recipe ready to post tonight for Bites & Pieces — unless somebody has something more exotic they want to put up. I hope nobody minds if we take Saturday evening as a recipe post.It's almost warm enough here for me to start painting, and probably will be by the time I get out all my tools. Later . . . .
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" At least until things got difficult."Or until WMDs did not turn up and we felt our support had been obtained under false pretenses. But if it makes you feel better to think the above; go for it.
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We didn't "create" the problem of poverty. Poverty is the natural condition for humans.Ditto. Everyone has seen the Heinlein quotation. Jesus said the poor will always be with us. Sadly, I think they are both right.
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qb: Stressful here as well; I'm hoping it will blow over so I won't go into details (all work related). I don't know how much of it is actual pressure on my boss and how much of it is just the time of year. Bleh!!Scott: Yes, many Dems did support the war. I, however, am pure as the driven snow, since I was always against it. :-)okie: 'way back when (I think it's still in the FAQ) we'd talked about having a weekly food post, so I think doing it on weekends is a great idea. Saturday night seems to have become the freeform kind of post, so go for it!Out to run a couple of errands–catch up with you all in a bit!
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I haven't commented at all on the PSU sex crime scandal. It's something you don't really even want to read about, and I've been thinking about what to conclude from it. It's dumbfounding, wondering why, if some of what is said is true, people who saw or knew would not go positively nuclear. I just keep coming back to, why on Earth if you saw that happening would you not smash the perp in the head with the nearest blunt object, let alone not go to the authorities and not just the U brass. Seriously. I assume McQueary for example is a decent guy. How does Sandusky not end up bleeding and unconscious if he actually witnessed it? No answers, I guess.
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qb (re PSU), for once we agree 100%! I don't get it. But I'm waiting to see how this plays out. I suspect there are many details yet to come out that might explain that behavior, although I don't know what it would be. I just keep wondering what went through that child's mind. Did he have hope of rescue by an adult coming on scene, only to have that summarily dashed? It is sickening to me.I had new problems with post editor, as in I could not get to some functions (could not get to html editor and could not schedule for later posting). I wonder if it's my current browser. Anybody have tips for teens?
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FWIW, my post editor problem apparently is a browser issue (although I still can't get to the setting to schedule it for later).
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Also the Pennsylvania child abuse reporting law is odd in that it has witnesses tell their boss rather than requiring the person to simply report it it directly to Child Services, cops etc. Not that it prohibits direct reporting but it's different than Michigan and many of states. I am watching the PSU game right now and they just suggested if the players win they may walk the ball down to Paterno's house. They still don't get it apparently.
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ashot, I get the difference in the reporting law. But I find it difficult to believe that normal people, when confronted with such a scene, stop to think through what the legal reporting requirement is and then have it govern their immediate reaction.Based on what little I know about the PSU community (garnered from friends who attended or were on faculty there), I doubt they will ever get it. They will see themselves as the victims. Hope I'm wrong about that.
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ascot:Or until WMDs did not turn up and we felt our support had been obtained under false pretenses. Well the absence of WMD's is one of the difficulties that arose to which i was referring. And I had more in mind prominent elected Dems than the average Dem on the street. It's kind of hard for them to sensibly claim to have been deceived since plenty of them were making the same claims about Saddam that the Bush admin was making prior to the war.But if it makes you feel better to think the above; go for it.It doesn't make me feel better or worse. Playing politics is what politicians do.
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I always try to reserve judgment on these things, too. I know from experience that things usually aren't what they first appear. History is certainly nothing if not riddled with examples of people either looking the other way or not acting in the face of real evil, and this may be another example. It is just disturbing and mysterious if it is true that there were any of these folks who actually saw it happening. Disturbing not just in the obvious sense but because I don't have any reason to think that Joe Pa or McQueary, for example, are any lesser people than any of us. They might be better. Yet something let this go by the wayside. CS Lewis described humanity as bent in some of his fiction. Bent seems right.
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And I had more in mind prominent elected Dems than the average Dem on the street.But you initially brought this up in regard to someone definitely not a "prominent elected Dem."
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I get the reporting law thing, too, if that is true. But anyone who witnessed boys being raped would have been justified under the law in using force to stop it. I would think a former DI football player and grad assistant wouldn't be too afraid to act. Or at least intervene, yell, call the cops, etc. Well, I'm not going to wrack my brain. It's just one of the more inexplicable and shocking stories to come along.
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What you said above, qb, about how come nobody took a blunt object to Sandusky. . . or at the least yelled and screamed bloody murder???okie, I've never been able to figure out how to schedule a future post, either. When Kevin gets a chance to pop his head in maybe he'll explain it, and I'll add it to the FAQ sheet.
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Wow! Just tuned into the MSU-Iowa game: 34 – 7 about halfway through the 3rd. Go State!!!
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Starting to snow here.How'd the painting go, okie??
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Hey, michi. Not done with painting, but thanks for asking. It's very windy here today, so I was not comfortable up on the ladder. LOL, definitely not airborne material. I'm terrified of heights, get vertigo. (There's a story there having to do with my airborne bro.) Weather reports are that tomorrow will be better for my purpose.I'm going to try something on the post scheduling and will let you know if I figure it out. Posting to FAQs is a wonderful idea, although I have to admit I did not think to check FAQs. 😦 I guess it's something that will be worth revisiting.As an aside, I'm trying out Opera browser (just never really was enchanted about G Chrome, but maybe didn't give it enough of a try). I truly like Opera except for a few significant glitches, and I guess this site is one of them. I can go back to Firefox for this purpose, but it's kind of a pain.And please don't write the "snow" word out loud. My heat has gone out (I was apparently overly encouraged a week ago when it seemed to be just a matter of batteries in the thermostat). Grrrrr. The good news for me is that it is not really cold here yet.
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michi, don't know if you're missing the interesting dialogue occurring at PL. Greg has called out qb by name and qb has responded.
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okie:But you initially brought this up in regard to someone definitely not a "prominent elected Dem."Well, the discussion began with a mention of someone who was not a prominently elected Dem. But when I spoke of Dems who supported the war until it got difficult, I most definitely did not have Toby Keith in mind. Based on the context of the discussion, I think at least that much was clear.
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Scott, your initial comment on this in entirety:"s-cat:"Okie – despite his support for the Iraq war – I thought I read somewhere Toby Keith was a Dem?"Not sure why you say "despite". Lots of Dems supported the Iraq War. At least until things got difficult."So I don't understand your latest response. Or are you just dissembling?
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okie:So I don't understand your latest response.I don't understand your lack of understading.Did you really think I was referring to Toby Keith when I mentioned Dems who supported the war until it got difficult? I'm also not sure why you think I am dissembling. Since it wasn't clear in my original post, I clarified to ashot in my second that the people I had in mind were elected Dems. Are you saying I am lying? That I really meant someone else? Who do you think I really had in mind?I'm really not sure at all what the problem is.
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Scott, absolutely not saying you are lying.Never mind.
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Just took a look at PL and his rhetoric aimed at qb. Greg continues to prove himself a completely dishonest hack. There is no more generous way to put it.
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Scott–When I read your explanation to okie I was confused, also, so I think your initial response isn't as clear to us as it is to you. The pitfalls of written communication.Now, to go see what Greg is up to. . . who knew we'd be such a thorn in a professional pundit's side????
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I'm really not sure at all what the problem is.Well there we have it.
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And, sadly, beach is the most coherent of the PL regulars now.While I don't, and probably never will, see eye-to-eye with you on politics and policy, qb, I have to admit that it drives me a little crazy to see you attacked on PL. When I'm a little less distracted–hopefully this evening–I'll go look at Greg's links and your rebuttals and try to come up with a worthy argument against you. 🙂
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I've been multi-multitasking for a few hours, watching some football (sheesh the Bucheyes are horrible, Braxton is horrible, coaches are horrible, ugh), stalling on work. I see you all noticed Greg called me out.I found it hilarious. And I have posted answers to my own question. In short, it seems to me that he completely bolixed up and misstated the math of the millionaire tax. I am always subject to making math errors, but the more I looked, the less it all added up.What raised my suspicions where the claims in his linked post about how minimal the impact on the rich would be. When I see that, I become suspicious, because it sounds like something for nothing. So I ballparked the math in my head and then checked the chart he linked. I think he completely goofed it. If not, he misrepresented it. And then he tried to mock me and change the subject when I asked how much the tax would raise.
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When I'm a little less distracted–hopefully this evening–I'll go look at Greg's links and your rebuttals and try to come up with a worthy argument against you. 🙂Michi, it ain't worth it.
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qb:He also started a new thread. Too cynical to wonder why it happened as soon as his dishonesty became apparent?
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qb, if GS "bollixed up the math" (which I have not looked at), are you asserting your typical arguments are then proved? I have to call a mulligan on that until I look at this
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I'll take your word for it, MsJS. :-)Scott: I'm not willing to call Greg dishonest, but does make you wonder about the timing. Let's just call it professional butt covering.
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Scott, yes he did. And I put my response on his new thread. In short, his figures appear to yield only $4.65 billion annually, but then the average tax increase he stated is far less than on the CTJ chart he cites as his source.As I just said there, I assume that he and other liberals would be find hitting millionaires much, much harder than his figures indicate (which would have to be the case), but he ought not to misstate the facts, let alone so extremely. He either lied about this or, I will choose to believe, badly mixed up the math.
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And just as a bitchy aside worthy of nothing,Why doesn't GS just give Bernie guest-poster status and be done with the mutual xxx?
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Greg called out QB before QB presented his version of the math.If Greg thinks QB's math is bogus, fine. Greg can then defend his numbers. But Greg chided QB for something that didn't even happen. There was no need to butt-cover at all.
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My typical arguments proved? What does that mean?All I'm saying is that Greg posted that only 354,532 taxpayers would be hit by the tax, and their average tax increase would be only a tiny $13,457. His point was that the surtax is tiny, hardly any tax at all. But on my calculator that totals only $4.65 billion. So there seems to be an order of magnitude error in his math as the the impact on taxpayers, or else it is silly to think that this tax is going to make any difference to the budget.
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okie: He may not want it. Bernie actually has (or had–I haven't checked recently) his own blog. I ran into him first via Steve Benen back when Steve was writing The Carpetbagger Report and Bernie was commenting on it. Steve has since become the Washington Monthly's Political Animal (when Kevin Drum moved from WaMo to MoJo) and Bernie migrated to PL.Just goes to show you how ridiculously involved I've become with political blogging these last three or so years.
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Why doesn't GS just give Bernie guest-poster status and be done with the mutual xxx?With this I agree, although it would result in many posts! The behavior is strange; B has become almost manic since this place happened. But at least he is a better writer by far than the actual bloggers. Too bad he won't really discuss anything.
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qb, "your typical arguments" means I do not typically agree with you. I don't understand your lack of understanding. LOL.michi, I know BL has his own blog, but it does not get the attention PL does. Do you really think he wouldn't jump at the opportunity to post on PL??? That said, I more often than not agree with him and do not necessarily think it would be a bad thing. As even qb points out, he writes well.
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Bernie will discuss stuff, but rarely. Scheduling posts: it's on the right, little clock icon, says schedule. Select your time then publish. More details if necessary when I'm not on my iPhone?
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I'm just going to throw this out there because I didn't see the exchange or the math, I really am not reading the comments anymore, but the Dems have been trying to get small jobs efforts passed and paid by a small surtax on millionaires. It's my understanding the entire jobs bill wasn't intended to be paid for by this measure. However, I don't know what Greg's reference to was as I didn't read it. Just thought I throw up some idea that maybe that's where the confusion came from. The only way to really make a large difference revenue wise via taxes is to rescind all the GB tax cuts. And some people are saying a transaction tax on speculative trading could raise quite a bit of money, but I haven't seen actual numbers. I thought Greg's little blurb about the commenters was a bit strange and maybe desperate sounding which I find somewhat sad. But then I notice he has some posts with 800 + comments so I don't think he needs to worry too much. It's the commenters themselves who have changed, not Greg IMO, although I'm not overly impressed with Jonathan Bernstein. I think since a lot of the more moderate commenters have left or don't comment very frequently it's opened the door to more vitriolic comments as no one's really objecting too much.
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Kevin: I, at least, will need more help when you aren't on your iPhone. Don't see a little clock anywhere when I created a test post.But glad you're on your iPhone, since I assume that means you're doing something fun!okie: yes. He'd be exposed to a much wider audience than his blog and he might not want that for many reasons–personal or professional.
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michi, I very much think BL would welcome the national attention, exposure notwithstanding.
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"Bernie will discuss stuff, but rarely"Horse hockey.My understanding of the rough math of the millionaire tax was that it was supposed to raise $450 billion over ten years. Of course, these projects are not much more than pie in the sky. But that was not my point with GS.It was simply his math, which was as stated above and supposedly based on Citizens for Tax Justice's analysis. But where GS said the tax would average only 13k, which, when multiplied by the number of taxpayers he waid would be hit, is only $4.65 billion, the GS chart he linked showed almost $110k average tax increase.This number apparently was not attractive to him for purposes of saying, it would only be less than a half percent! And the point toward which I was heading was that either he is grossly misleading people or the tax is insignificant to the budget and hardly the critical measure Obama claims it is.
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That should have said projections, not projects.
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michi/kevin: my scheduled post experiment worked. You set the time and you MUST select publish. The terminology in "help" just does not match what we actually see.
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Thanks for the clarification qb. Are you expecting a response from Greg, lol. Did he call you out by name, that's rather unusual for him right? Usually he only responds when someone's paid him a compliment so they can do the "group hug" routine. Funny.Bernie used to get involved in long discussions with Scott at least, no more though. He puts up some good links but I don't always like his little innuendos about what we should think it means. I'd rather figure it out myself, thank-you very much..
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No, I don't expect an actual answer, even though yes he called me out by name, twice.I honestly don't know what is up with Greg's math. He says the tax would average 13k. The CTJ chart he links says over 100k, which is more consistent with other reports I've seen (not to mention with common sense and math).
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Is anybody here planning to watch the R debate tonight?
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MsJS:But Greg chided QB for something that didn't even happen.Exactly. And he repeated it even after qb pointed it that it didn't happen. Which is why I called Greg dishonest. He really is.
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Not me okie. I'm still working on my jelly. Hope your weather improves tomorrow. I don't do ladders either. I've had enough falls for one lifetime. I love painting the inside when I can just get on a little step ladder and get the job done. Our house needs to have the outside done as well but I think we'll just pay someone to do it this time………I don't necessarily trust my husband on a ladder anymore either. It sucks to get old.
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Okie:I'm not. With 700+ channels on cable now, surely there is something more worthwhile on.
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But Greg chided QB for something that didn't even happen.That's become sop over there lately, which is the main reason I left, not generally coming from Greg though, too bad if true. He used to correct himself if he made a mistake.
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scott@5:39pm: LOL LOL LOL
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Stanford v. Oregon is on, but I'm recording that, watching the debate.
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Scott: although largely what okie said (that was classic, my friend!), if it helps I'm watching the UTenn v Ark game. I'll bet Kevin might be, too.Of course, in Connecticut, you don't have much in the way of college f'ball to watch…/snark
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After all the hubbub about QB getting called out on PL, I wandered back for the first time in months. Geez, I'm glad you all are here (and invited me). It's like the same 7 posters over and over and over again, not counting Chris Fox or whatever non-banned username he's using now.I think I don't ever need to go back, certainly not to the comments section.
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Mike: thank lms, Scott, Kevin and Mark in Austin–they did the heavy lifting. I like Greg's work, although less so lately (my go to guy is Steve Benen as the Political Animal on Washington Monthly [good Lib that I am]), but since they re-did their web site his commenting section has become unworkable also. ATiM is home now. . .
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qb: you masochist, you!
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Whoa–Utah is beating UCLA 21 – 3 in the third quarter! I hadn't expected that at all. . . gonna go find that game (UArk has it wrapped up–sorry, Kevin!)
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Scott- I obviously wasn't he only one who interpreted your post in th way I did. I will say after I posted my response I thought your post made more sense if it referenced politicians. Hazards of blogging.Michi- good win forMSU today.
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Thanks, ashot! It was all due to me watching online, I have no doubt! :-)Six weeks to the junior ashot making his/her appearaance?
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michiI'm so glad to hear you say that, I wasn't sure if we'd ever get enough people over here for it to become home for us. I think it's shaping up rather nicely. If scott would just quit asking me what I mean all the time (jk scott) I'd be pretty comfortable here myself.I really do think that one of the reasons the comments over there seem so extreme now is because a lot of us aren't there much anymore who post more tempered opinions. I tried to do both, but they wouldn't accept me anymore really because I think they though we had undermined Greg or whatever. What they didn't ever get is that a lot of us were basically leaving anyway and this was really just a way to keep us together and have a different dynamic.
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"I think I don't ever need to go back, certainly not to the comments section."It was actually quite a civilized and informative day over there, relatively speaking. It's a madhouse, with a couple of genuinely evil residents.
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"just a way to keep us together and have a different dynamic."Yep. I had noticed that when we did our strikes the commenting tone changed–and now it seems to have changed period. I've skimmed comments over there periodically and not been impressed. I'll be self-centered and say that one of the things that disappointed me was the lack of a Veterans' Day post or comment over there. I probably missed it (because I can't imagine Greg being so tone deaf as to not have a blurb), but it wasn't as prominent as here or other sites I visited yesterday.
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jeeze, I sound like a second grader in that second paragraph, sorry. I'm not even drinking wine or anything. I did have an emotional day though over at the cemetery. There's something about that place because of the veterans that always gets me going. They added a white marble wall about 4 or 5 years ago, my parent's ashes were in the first section and now that it's complete, with the landscaped grounds and everything it's really breathtaking.
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michi, I noted the same thing about no Veterans Day post or comment on PL, and had the same reaction . . and I'm not even a vet.lms, it's never too late to start drinking. /jkBut know what you mean about the ambiance. I will never forget my first visit to the Pearl Harbor memorial. My sis dragged me there figuratively kicking and screaming because I thought it would be a tourist trap. Not so. The air crackled with history, and it made your hair stand on end. Never forgotten it.
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The Vietnam Memorial in Washington for me, lms and okie. Don't know anybody who died there, but know a few folks who served there. Visit it every time I'm in DC and every time I cry.The Korean War memorial gets to me, too, although not the WWII memorial that just went up.
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okie, I felt like that when we went to DC about six years ago and walked the mall and spent time at the memorials. It was really something and makes you appreciate our history and all the sacrifices our veterans have made. Our daughter was in France last year and had the chance to go to the Normandy Cemetery and Museum and Omaha Beach and was absolutely blown away by the experience.
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michiMy husband had quite a few buddies to look up on the Vietnam wall when we were there unfortunately and he was quite subdued, but honestly the Korean War Memorial was the one that most impressed me for some reason.
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lms, one of my dreams is to get to Normandy and Omaha. It's the sole reason I've kept my dress greens looking good. I'll let you know if I get there. . .
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I know a number who died in VN and have not yet brought myself to visit the memorial, even the visiting memorial. Recently had an emotional discussion about it with my bro, who served there. He only went a few years ago. I have a similar aversion to the bombing memorial in OKC, which by all accounts is extraordinarily tastefully done. Maybe soon. The VN war was a defining moment in my life even though I was not a combatant. All of the DC memorials are special to me.lms, glad your daughter had a chance to do that and assume she is like you and appreciated it for what it is.lms,
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"The VN war was a defining moment . . ."; how ridiculous, it was not a "moment." Please substitute "event" or something.
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okieOur youngest daughter was extremely close to her grandpa, my Dad, so yeah it meant a lot to actually be somewhere where so much happened in WWII. She said the cemetery for the American soldiers and the stories she read made her feel like her feet were made of lead, if that makes sense.
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lms. . . the feet of lead makes perfect sense. Your daughter is a treasure.
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She's fearless, like you michi. The two of you would understand each other perfectly.
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One of these days we need to get together!
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Mich:lms, one of my dreams is to get to Normandy and Omaha. You should definitely do it. I was there this past summer. I actually did a 12 day tour of WW II battlefields in Europe, and our first two days were spent in Normandy. Very moving. The American cemetery above Omaha Beach is obviously the most famous one, but if you have the chance to visit the American cemetery in Luxembourg, it is, I would say, even more moving. Rather than the straight lines of headstones that you see at Omaha, the headstones at Lux are placed in a series of wide arcs. As you enter the cemetery, you stand on a sort of stone patio with a huge wall monument both to your left and right, and then out in front of you you'll see the arcs of headstones. But as you look down, you'll notice a single headstone, set apart from the others, placed in the center and in front of the first arc. You'll also notice that, unlike all the other stones, which have the names, ranks, and dates simply etched into the white stone, the stone at the head has gold lettering. Then you see the name….George S. Patton, buried as if he is reviewing the troops for eternity. Talk about chills.
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Mich:Here's a video of the cemetery at Lux.
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Thanks, Scott! For some reason the video portion didn't want to play, but I found the web site and the cemetery is gorgeous. Being Airborne, I do feel somewhat obligated to get over to the battlefields in Europe one of these days. . .
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