Brent Nyitray
Fairlington Blade
Let the mutherfuker burn!
jnc4p
Kevin S. Willis
Michigoose
lmsinca
markinaustin
Arcanaut
novahockey
quarterback
ScottC
yellojkt
One hesitates, or one should hesitate, to allow the race for the Republican nomination for president to become an opportunity to ask serious questions. Most of the candidates aren’t serious and one of the serious candidates isn’t being considered seriously; there’s a great deal of silliness; and, most importantly, no one has yet cast a vote.
I suspect, however, that even the most jaded of us, even those inclined to shrug slightly, smile pleasantly, note that this is the silly season, and calmly reassure others that rational (never mind calmer) voices will prevail, even those among us most inclined to take all of this with a grain of salt, must be given cause by the phenomenon of Herman Cain.
Even that most jaded observer must wonder what one should make of the Republican party, the conservative movement in general, the Tea Party in particular, and conservative media, given that they played a part in giving us Cain, a candidate who was not aware that China possesses nuclear weapons, has offered a tax plan that has no chance of passing, and who seems to believe that one can refuse actually to address questions and remain a viable candidate for the Republican nomination.
Cain will not win the nomination and he will not, in all likelihood, create serious problems for the winning candidate. Cain is not a serious candidate and his campaign, such as it is, has the appearance of a book tour that has gotten well and truly out of hand. That said, the individuals and organizations that assisted in giving rise to the debacle that is Cain should be asked some hard questions, and, importantly, they should be asking those questions of themselves.
Not to mention that extra-fatal lady shimmer.
Filed under: Uncategorized |
All Things in Moderation 
Cain is following in Sarah Palin's awesome footsteps, Nathaniel.Now excuse me while I duck out of here before McWing comes after me for dissing his favorite politician. . .
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Cain was a marginal player who was imitating the Gingrich Model of using an election campaign to push his book and public speaking business. It has backfired and permanently tarnished his reputation. There is a saying that if you can't run with the big dogs, don't get off the porch. Cain should have stayed on the porch.
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Mr. Sullivan: "a candidate who was not aware that China possesses nuclear weapons"Technically, he asserted they were pursuing them, and might achieve them at some point. This is true–the some point being in the early 1960s. "has offered a tax plan that has no chance of passing"The boldness is attractive. And other bold plans have been futile, until suddenly they happened. That being said, I agree that it's not going to happen."and who seems to believe that one can refuse actually to address questions and remain a viable candidate for the Republican nomination"Primaries are interesting things. If he seems to be frustrating a Republican-hostile media, it could help him in the nomination process. If he can't answer questions from conservatives and Republican pundits, then he's in for more trouble.
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I appended a Herman Cain video to the above post. He's nothing if not opinionated.
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Cain believes he's serious. So do enough of those polled to keep him going.However, Cain's latest mess may involve breaching tax and campaign laws. I eagerly await how he'll deal with that.@Kevin: In my view he's not only opinionated but disdainful of much of what he would govern.
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MsJS: But he would give that woodchuck a tuna melt, or a metal skull crusher. That's his juice! "He's nothing if not opinionated" was in the context of the BLR video of Cain I appended to the post.
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Oh, I know, Kevin. If I were the woodchuck, I'd hold out for the metal skull crusher. A new one.
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How many skulls could a woodchuck crush, if the woodchuck could vote for Cain?
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Given the anti-politician mood this year, which Cain has tapped into, I believe that if Ross Perot was running for the first time this year (and if he was younger), he might have actually had a good shot at winning.
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Agree with jncp.BTW, I am completely suspicious of this fourth woman's allegations, as made. It is true that where there is smoke there is fire, however, the fire is often not the one ooyu were expecting or hoping for.After dinner and drinks with Cain, this complainant says Cain put such a heavy move on her that it amounted to a physical assault.After dinner and drinks with Cain. Suppose he put a more credible move on her and attempted to first kiss her. Suppose he did kiss her. Suppose he then slipped his hand under her skirt. How the hell does he put his hand under her skirt and try to force her head down on him at the same time in the front seat of a car? He's a contortionist?After dinner and drinks, which seems inappropriate under the circumstances, I'll bet something happened, but not much, and that she has embroidered.Did the rest of you men find the story as told unlikely?How about the women here?Go read her transcript and tell me I heard her wrong, if I did.
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As soon as she picked up Gloria Allred to defend her virtue, I stopped listening.
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Ditto, lms. Mark, since I have not followed this closely I cannot speak to your questions. Are those acts said to have occurred simultaneously? "I'll bet something happened, but not much, and that she has embroidered." Certainly plausible, which is not to say there might not be other plausible explanations too.
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Okiegirl, here is the partial transcript I think is overeager:“I met Mr. Cain in the lobby of the bar at the Capitol Hilton at around 6:30 p.m. We had drinks at the hotel, and he asked how I liked my room, which is kind of normal, and I said I was very surprised. I said, I can't believe it, I've got this great suite, it’s gorgeous. Mr. Cain kind of smirked, and then said, ‘I upgraded you.’“He then took me to an Italian restaurant where we had dinner. During dinner, Mr. Cain looked at me and said, ‘Why are you here?’ I said, ‘Actually, Herman, my boyfriend, whom you met, suggested that I meet with you ‘cause he thought you could help me because I really need a job. I was wondering if there's anything available at the state association level or perhaps if you could speak to someone at the foundation to try to get my job back, perhaps even in a different department.’ He said, ‘I'll look into that.’“While we were driving back to the hotel, he said that he would show me where the National Restaurant Association offices were. He parked the car down the block. I thought that we were going to go into the offices so he that could show me around. At that time I had on a black pleated skirt, a suit jacket and a blouse. He had on a suit with his shirt open. But instead of going into the offices, he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg under my skirt and reached for my genitals. He also grabbed my head and brought it toward his crotch. I was very, very surprised and very shocked.“I said: ‘What are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This isn't what I came here for.’ Mr. Cain said, ‘You want a job, right?’“I asked him to stop and he did. I asked him to take me back to my hotel which he did, right away."
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Thanks for the quote, Mark. Is that section in entirety? It does not explicitly say the actions were simultaneous, but it does seem to imply that. I do have to say that for the most part, without knowing whether her individual story is true or not, it is a description that is not at all uncommon.
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I'd have to agree with okie, and it doesn't require a contortionist. He's driving, so right hand up her skirt while half turned, left hand on head pulling toward him. Although Gloria Allred is a red flag for me as well, sad to say.
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Ah, michi, you've been there too.
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I remain dubious – not specifically about the request for an exchange of job for sex – which was once fairly common.The setup she describes from the beginning was tawdry and she went along with it for hours. And I still do not imagine the"right hand up her skirt while half turned, left hand on head pulling toward him" scenario as likely. Without compliance, that scenario goes nowhere. IMO. How big is he? How small is she? There is no leverage in the driver's seated position, 'Goose, you know that.
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"Goose, you know that." Mark, you DON"T know that because you have not been on that end of things. Things happen that sound ridiculous in the telling, but they are the truth.Still not saying this particular story is true.
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I hear you to say that it is possible as described, Okie. I must accept that.
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Yes, mark, possible. Still agree with you that it is not likely, but possible. Sorry, absolutely no disrespect intended, but I think you have to have walked that line, "in those boots" so to speak, to appreciate how incidious it is (or was, I'm too old for it to be an issue now, LOL and thank god).
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I never had to walk in your boots, but I have been alive for 68 years. During the Thomas hearings, there were 9 lawyers in my building. Two were women. Two part time female receptionists. Seven women support staff, two of whom were paralegals. Three law clerks, two of whom were women. We all watched the Hill testimony and Thomas' response in our big conference room, on a little TV by today's standards [25"?]. The lawyers insisted on hearing all fo the testimony before taking sides. 6 of the seven men thought Hill was more credible. One was unsure. ALL the women thought there was no doubt whatsoever about it.Some years earlier I caught a law partner who had been embezzling. My paralegal caught the embezzlement scheme. After the Thomas hearing she told me that the embezzler had continually hit upon her in the same manner Hill described. I was pretty amazed and asked why she had not told me. "Because I had bad odds in a swearing match", she said. She told me she had "handled" it. My then paralegal is a lawyer now, and has been for fifteen years. Her strategies for handling it and for avoidance and evasion were many. I have asked her how I did not see it and she said that really bad guys develop timing their misconduct to where it is always "one-on-one" and the good guys find it hard to believe it is happening.So I do know that it was indeed insidious.Women have told me that it was worse in the advertising industry and in politics than anywhere else, and worse in coastal cities than in Austin, for instance. And I have dealt with the issue professionally perhaps thirty times in forty-four years. Usually I have been defending a supervisor for an employer. There are some unreconstructed male chauvinist pigs out there. Can justify almost any misbehavior with a woman, to themselves. There are men who always take friendliness as a come-on. And there are a lot of mixed signals out there.
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Just for fun . . . Annie Lenox.
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Wow, mark, thanks for sharing that story. Truthfully, the pervasiveness of that kind of crap is a huge reason I did not pursue law as a career, either as a paralegal or an attorney. Does that not strike you as just wrong???
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I think it was the wrong reason not to pursue the law! Rosanne, my wife, is a CPA and tax specialist. She has worked in a big firm setting and in small firms as well.She says that this stuff was far more widespread in 1980 then it was by 1995. In fact, any romance in the workplace was frowned upon in the national firm she was with in '95.Law firms are much better than advertising firms and real estate firms as far as I can tell. Car dealerships are tough for women from what I have seen. I think that even in car dealerships the behavior is not "pervasive". Today, there are way too many women in power in law firms for this to be a pervasive problem. In the end, the problem that the Cain allegation describes is always about inequality of power.
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Inequaliyt of power — EXACTLY! Your wife is a very savvy woman.
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Mark:I'm driving a car and pull over, grab your balls with my right hand and the hair on your head with my left. I'm smaller than you, but probably just as strong. You think you wouldn't feel threatened?
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Duly warned! G'night…
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"Duly warned! G'night…"There's some sexual harassment going on here. Not sure who, but someone's doing it. 😉
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I am not a supporter of Cain, but in 2008 we had a President nominated and elected who never should have been considered a serious candidate. He still shouldn't be taken seriously. So I'm not impressed. I would like Democrats and independents who voted for him to answer hard questions about what they were thinking, too.Seriously.
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Let me add something to that.Executive experience of Obama = 0Executive experience of Cain = years in several positionsBusiness/economic experience of Obama = 0Business/economic experience of Cain = years in several positions
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QB, I consider the constitutional duty of the Prez to be FP, first. The better candidates, for me, are not senators, governors, businessmen, or law professors. They are former SecsState, SecsDef, NSAs, CIA DIs, and flag officers who dealt with many nations. To a lesser extent, former VPs and former Ambassadors to big countries. But, most important, former presidents.Every time we elect a governor it takes two years or more for him to learn the FP ropes. That BHO served on the FRC and went to Russia with Lugar was his only real preparation to be Prez. McC's long service on the AFC was his. Better than WJC, RWR, JC, or GWB, but nowhere near what I really like: the Bush 41 model.The "business" or "university" model is really meaningless, to me. Thus BHO is now far more prepared, IMO, then any R running. I would not say that if Condi or Petraeus were the R nominee.I would give points to Huntsman, if he had a chance.I am focusing here on the isue you raised, which is preparation for the presidency, only.
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Mark,My point was simply that in 2008 BHO had almost zero qualification to be taken seriously. He said himself when elected to the Senate that he wouldn't run for President, because he wouldn't be qualified. Nothing he did after that filled that gap.After BHO's coronation by the Dems, I will never take seriously a Dem/BHO supporter's critique of a Republican like Cain as unserious and calling into question the status of the party.
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I have written elsewhere that I take Cain seriously as a person – I do not scoff at his math degree and his MS in computer sci and his work for the Navy and his lobbying and his success in a competitive business and his success as a public personality.The only reason that I do not think he will be among the finalists here is that he is not running a serious campaign, judging by his itinerary, which is not "IA-NH-NV-SC".Yes, he does not have the experience I think a POTUS should have, but I agree he has functionally almost as much prep as a governor or a senator. I am not scoffing.
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I'm more than willing to scoff. The itinerary alone justifies doing so.
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At this point in 2007, John Edwards was a Dem contender in the Democratic primary, and you went on to give us Obama, a lightweight nobody with no qualifications who serially dumped his old friends to reinvent himself when they became inconvenient.No one on the right is going to lose sleep over your scoffing.
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ns: I'm more than willing to scoff. The itinerary alone justifies doing so.Outsiders always think they're going to "beat the system". It worked out so well for Thompson and Giuliani last time around. qb: After BHO's coronation by the Dems, I will never take seriously a Dem/BHO supporter's critique of a Republican like Cain as unserious and calling into question the status of the party.Obama's deification, based mostly on a good speech at the 2004 convention, wasn't justified. However, Cain is a weaker (or more vulnerable) candidate (which I think the primaries will demonstrate, as they move forward). That being said, I have noted many times: reports of either party's death, or imminent demise, are almost always highly exaggerated. If Republicans take a lickin' in 2012, they'll bounce back in 2014. If the Democrats get a drubbin' in 2012, they'll bounce back in 2014 or 2016. Both parties have had their interesting primary candidates (you cite Obama, QB, but I would look at folks like Clinton and Gore, both of whom exhibited bizarre behavior, and a general confusion about certain facts–Gore, for example, was unaware that a bust of George Washington at Monticello was George Washington, which is not quite nukes in China, but Cain has not claimed to be responsible for the legislation that made the Internet possible. Etc). Politics attracts interesting birds. I realize we have more than one former Perotista amongst us, but I thought Perot, for all his good qualities, was crazy, even back in '92. Anyone recall Gary Hart's interesting behaviors during his primary run? As far as candidates that gain sizable popularity in the party before imploding under the sheer weight of their personal issues, may I introduce . . . Howard Dean. What did Howard Dean suggest about the Democrats, other than that they were going to challenge a Republican Cowboy with an insufferable Thurston Howell instead of Dr. Yeeeaarggghh! ?Then Obama comes along and the Democrats secure a sizable win against maverick John McCain, war hero. Kerry, Gore, serial philanderers and potential molesters/harassers like Clinton are in the past, or reformed and brought back as icons. Next time a Republican Cowboy wins, Cain will be a footnote with no larger meaning.
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"No one on the right is going to lose sleep over your scoffing."I scoff at that. Seriously, I don't think there was any indication that someone is expected to lose sleep over any given scoff, or multiple scoffs, as regards Herman Cain.
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To be clear, I'm not terribly concerned with the question of qualifications. Is Cain qualified to be president? Of course. Is his campaign a debacle that should cause any number of people and institutions to consider the role they played in making that possible? Of course. If the rise of a candidate who offers a tax plan and refuses to address questions about said plan doesn't cause people and institutions to pause and reflect on exactly how it came to this, then the bar is presumably far, far lower that I would have imagined.
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Mr. Sullivan: If the rise of a candidate who offers a tax plan and refuses to address questions about said plan doesn't cause people and institutions to pause and reflect on exactly how it came to this, then the bar is presumably far, far lower that I would have imagined.First of all, of course the bar is far lower than you would have imagined. Really, if you found yourself as a recipient of a sudden windfall of millions of dollars, would you think: "Hey, I'm going to run for president"? I think the pool of quality applicants is actually quite low. Of course, many of those involved wouldn't have known, many until after being committed, that Herman Cain was going to have multiple bimbo eruptions and be unable to answer questions about his tax plan. They'd have to judge on what they had seen, and sometimes you can see someone who is in charge, effective, smart, capable, charming, dedicated, and ready to roll. You have no reason to think this guy is going to turn into the Titanic, and yet, he does. I imagine this is the story for many presidential campaigns. At least some of them. "Hey, this guy is great! I'm in. Wait, what did he just say? Oh, shit."
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"They'd have to judge on what they had seen, and sometimes you can see someone who is in charge, effective, smart, capable, charming, dedicated, and ready to roll. You have no reason to think this guy is going to turn into the Titanic, and yet, he does."That's true, but I'm not sure it's true in this case. That Cain could say the things he's said and garner support should, I would humbly suggest, give rise to some serious soul searching. While I acknowledge that we should all forgive ourselves and others for being foolish enough to become swept into something that is undeniably exciting and, upon reflection, decidedly foolish,, we should also be prepared to pause and consider exactly how it is that we came to be in that situation.Suppose, for example, that a candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2014 were to propose tax increases on the very wealthy for the sole purpose of eliminating student loan debt, flatly refused to take questions about that plan, and found that he enjoys notable support (even if only for a time) for his candidacy. That, I think you would agree, would be a moment for the people and institutions who, through action or inaction, assisted in bringing things to that pass to pause, at the very least, for reflection.
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"That Cain could say the things he's said and garner support should, I would humbly suggest, give rise to some serious soul searching."To his supporters, I suppose, but I expect they are unlikely to do so. Of the candidates, he's certainly more interesting than, say, Mitt Romney, but Mitt Romney is probably more of a competent administrator. Or would appear to be so. "we should also be prepared to pause and consider exactly how it is that we came to be in that situation."We are prone to infatuation in politics. Elect in haste, repent at leisure. I think that has been true for many in both 2008 and 2010. "Suppose, for example, that a candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2014 were to propose tax increases on the very wealthy for the sole purpose of eliminating student loan debt, flatly refused to take questions about that plan, and found that he enjoys notable support (even if only for a time) for his candidacy."I can totally see that happening. 😉 Rather than reflection, I'd expect a lot of tit-for-tat. "Well, when Cain wouldn't answer questions about his 9-9-9 plan, you said it was okay. But now that it's our guy–" etc., etc., etc. Soul searching? I wouldn't expect much, except perhaps on the individual level, behind the scenes. At the moment, the Cain phenomenon is interesting, but built on polls, which are both capricious and unreliable (in my opinion), sound-bites and pundit-fascination. I'll be interested in seeing what the actual primaries bring. That's when the rubber actually meets the road.
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