Brent Nyitray
Fairlington Blade
Let the mutherfuker burn!
jnc4p
Kevin S. Willis
Michigoose
lmsinca
markinaustin
Arcanaut
novahockey
quarterback
ScottC
yellojktThis item is a week or so old, but Michigan’s Senate recently passed an Anti-Bullying law that requires schools to pass rules and policies to protect students from bullying….well most bullying at least.
Democrats have been trying to pass an anti-bullying bill for years but were always thwarted by Republicans, leaving Michigan as one of 3 states without such a laws. Why would Michigan Republicans oppose such a bill? Government intrusion perhaps? Nope, it was fear of the big, bad homosexual agenda that fueled opposition. In the decade Republicans have opposed the anti-bullying bill, at least 10 homosexual students committed suicide.
The controversial portion of the bill is the following: “This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil & parent or guardian.”
I suppose one could argue that the exception created by this language was aimed at making sure the bill complied with the First Amendment, but if that was the reason for the exclusion I would think political belief would have been added rather than just addressing religious beliefs and moral convictions.
The bill has been heavily criticized by the media and Democrats in Michigan. Stephen Colbert had a pretty funny and on point take on the bill, too.
By the way, keep an eye on Gretchen Whitmer who appears in the video in the second link. She is the Senate Minority Leader here in Michigan and will probaby be making a run at Governor or Congress in the next few years. She was also named one of the World’s Hottest Politicians a few years ago by Maxim.
The other big controversy in Michigan surrounds a bill which would change Michigan’s No Fault Car insurance law. To summarize, the bill would put a cap on how much insurance companies could end up paying at which point payment would come from Medicaid, Medicare or private insurance. I had also heard that the reimbursement amounts paid by insurers would also become tied to Medicaid amounts, but I can’t find a good article discussing that aspect of the bill at the moment. Anyway, assuming that is part of the bill, it would reduce revenue for hospitals and physicians while increasing profits for insurance companies. If catastrophically injured payments exceeded the cap, the government would likely end up on the hook for the medical care through Medicare or Medicaid.
One of the problems with the proposed reform (which has stalled) is that insurers are already protected from having to pay millions of dollars in medical benefits to injured victims since after $500,000, benefits are paid by a catastrophic claims fund. The money for that fund comes from, at least in part, assessments on consumers. If the insurers also contribute to that fund, then I can see how the cap would save them money, if not I don’t see where their costs are reduced. Obviously, their profits would be increased if they continued to charge the assessment. I also wonder what would happen with the $12.9 billion dollar fund if this law passes? Would I get a check?
Aligning payment with Medicaid payment would definitely save the insurers. This brings us to people’s biggest problem with the bill. There is no guarantee the insruance companies would pass this savings on to consumers nor is their a guarantee that they would end the assessment that has thus far funded the catastophic injury fund. Absent such a promise, this would simply be a giant giveaway to the insurance company while pushing costs to the Medicare and Medicaid and further reducing income to hospitals and doctors. Elections matter, people.
Filed under: Uncategorized |
All Things in Moderation 
http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,4612,7-132-2943_4860-244915–,00.html#Autodetails on Michigan and Medicaid subrogation here. any changes to that process is going to required the state submitting a revision to it's "state plan amendment" for federal approval. regarding bullying, i think this is a byproduct of zero tolerance. i was bullied as a 5-6th grader, along with a few other kids. until we figured out the math that 4 > 1. so we got our story straight and kicked is ass. each got hauled into the principals office and told the same story: "he fell." case dismissed and problem solved. i'd probably end up in juvie today for the same thing.
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The problem with bullying is that kids (and people) are afraid of the threat behind the bulying, violence. If more kids (and people)would realize that there are worse things than getting beat-up, as if nothing to fear but fear itself, bullying would really decline.NoVa highlights the problem, as I see it, this moronic abhorance of scholyard violence.
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And the abhorance of my horrific spelling and grammer. My apologies.
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Hmmm…I would disagree with the notion that the problem with bullying is the fear of violence. But I think my experience with bully and that of my twin brother largely backs up your point. My twin brother was bullied into depression and has since disclosed he had suicidal thoughts in high school. There were no threats or actual acts of violence against him, just constant taunts and teasing and impotent teachers who watched it all happen. It only stopped when I grabbed one of the little bastards by the neck and ummm…strongly urged him to stop. Again, the teacher sat and watched while I did that. I'm less certain that the bullying would have stopped had my brother done the same thing (I think it would probably would have gotten worse), but it did take violence to get it to stop.
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"just constant taunts and teasing and impotent teachers who watched it all happen"I don't see how a law fixes that. I do see how a pop to the chops does.
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I was bullied, particularly in junior high. An older kid told me I ought to punch the people that were bullying me. His logic was that even if I were to lose the fight, they'd eventually get tired of going to detention every time they bullied me. It only took one or two fights before it stopped. I NEVER won any fight, from that standpoing, I was and still am an unmitigated disaster, however, after that I was almost never bullied again. I say almost because occasionally someone I did not know would insult me and I would (attempt to)punch them, causing denention for both of us.
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I have no problem with "anti-bullying" laws but I still agree with TMW and NVH.When a kid fights back he is no longer an easy mark. He does not have to win. Just exact a price.I went to school in a different era. Teachers were allowed to hit in self defense or in defense of another child. My grade school principal put Eddie Woolley in his walk in vault as a punishment. I may have told that story here, I do not recall.If the anti-bullying statute encourages teachers to not sit idly by I am OK with it. But for boys, the best ways to stop bullying are to fight back and find allies.
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Since most states have a similar statute ia study of bullying before and after these laws is in order. Obviously that would be hard to study and drawing conclusions regarding causation would be difficult, but far dumber studies have been conducted. It seems like the 3 of us think a statute that says kids fighting back against a bully are immune from civil or criminal liabilty would be the best way to address the problem. What do you two think about the exception added to the law? Don't care? Are people overreacting?
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Ash — do you mean the bit about "does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief …."If we're going to address bullying through the legislative process, an effort that I think will fail*, I don't see how it makes sense to carve out some sort of exception of this nature. I'm immune from from my rude behavior b/c of personnel beliefs? doesn't fly. but i don't by into the whole "hate speech" thing either. *I'm knee jerk opposed to most "for the children" measures b/c it's never really about the children. I find the idea that we can protect and shield kids from the world laughable.
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Ashot, I was going to ask you about the exception. Is taunting an issue they are trying to deal with in some way under this statute? I was taught by my dad to never throw the first punch but be ready to throw the second one, and preferably, the last one, too. Taunting did not count. Physical contact counted. But your story about your brother has some power for me. Would he not have been clinically depressed, anyway?When we lost our farm, I was entering 7th grade and my sister was entering 1st. Strangers and poorly dressed in a city school system, we both were in fights the first day of school. My little sis, later a gymnast at Mich. St., was a natural athlete and she won a footrace. Two girls who lost, older and black, beat her up and gave her a bloody nose. We got home and compared notes. I told her she had to fight back until they were tired of getting hit, too. In fact, they never bothered her again, b/c she had given it a good shot the first time. The guy I did whip that morning dropped out of school soon after. His twin sister did not and she hated me for the next five years. I had nothing to do with Neary dropping out. He was just too dumb.
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My son punched a brother of one of his buddies in the nose on the last day of Jr. High and never had a problem once they went to high school. He waited until the last day so he wouldn't get suspended. Our youngest daughter did the same thing to one of the boys who kept threatening to rape her, last day of school she decked him, and she wasn't six foot tall yet either. I think some laws are okay but I think it's best for the individual schools to set the standards and let everyone know what they are. Sometimes bullying ends up being a he said/he said situation so it's difficult to get to the truth. I also think school counselors are a good avenue to pursue by getting all the parties and parents together. Not sure there should be carve outs, a bully's a bully, IMO.
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This brings back a lot for me. My mother, may she RIP, was very upset that we had both been in fights the first day in our new schools. At that time neither my sister nor I were having anything to do with my mother other than the bare minimum required to live in the same house. See, our parents had not told us we were losing our farm, and they simply packed us off on a Friday and we were in a tiny apartment in an industrial city for school on a Monday. Wanted to save us the worry. We stayed angry for a long time.
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"Our youngest daughter did the same thing to one of the boys who kept threatening to rape her"whoa. what!?! and the school didn't do anything? that's not bullying, that's .. something else entirely.
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LMS, good for your daughter. And I agree with NoVAH, a rape threat is way beyond bullying.
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I love the discussion here. A pop to the chops may work for boys, but not necessarily for girls. Bullying by girls is more often (but not always) non-physical and a physical response doesn't work in those cases. Indeed, it can backfire, as adults won't necessarily be aware of the social/psychological bullying that preceded the physical blow. When my nieces were growing up, they occasionally clued me in on how the bullies in their schools operated. As one might expect, some bullies were brutal but dumb. They got caught and punished. But the clever ones rarely did. I don't think a law can be designed to catch the truly clever bully.
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"Would he not have been clinically depressed, anyway?"That's obviously difficult to answer, but my best answer is that he very well may have been depressed anyway. That said, I don't think the thoughts of suicide would have existed without the bullying. My father had died a few years prior to us starting high school and he had a lot of difficulty dealing with that so that was an underlying issue. The morning my father died, my brother and I repeatedly walked passed his hospital bed which was in our living room. We were both relieved he didn't need any helping which led to tremendous guilt. For whatever reason, I dealt with that better than he did. When you combine that guilt with the taunting and the difficulty of having me as his twin brother (I was popular and a good athlete) it was a perfect storm of sorts. The logical question is would a bullying law have changed this? Even if all the law had done was made the bullying occur outside of school, it would have been less embarassing and easier to avoid.
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"bullying occur outside of school"seems like schools are expanding their reach to off-campus issues. don't have any links handy, but i heard of the school getting involved with off school ground incidents — and not just obvious things like a field trip or a team that's having a lunch somewhere.
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True I suppose, about the threats to my daughter, and we went to the school but the kid's dad was, shall we say, connected. My husband had a few words with him and even that didn't help. Being decked by a girl finally shut him up though.MsJS is right about girl on girl bullying, it is especially pernicious and difficult to tame.
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seems like schools are expanding their reach to off-campus issues.Is it an off-campus issue if the it's a text message or facebook message sent outside of school but between classmates?
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"Is it an off-campus issue if the it's a text message or facebook message sent outside of school but between classmates?"my opinion, yes. if it doesn't happen on school grounds or as part of a school activity, it's not their concern. i appreciate there's a spillover effect here, but the school is neither responsible nor welcome to be a 24/7 presence
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I agree, NoVA. That seems like the sort of example of schools expanding their reach that you were talking about. It seems best if schools focus on education as much as they possibly can. If they reach into facebook and texts sent from home, they either need more money or have less time and resources devoted to actually teaching.
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And Kevin, or somebody else, please add this link to the nightly post: http://www.theonion.com/articles/more-vegetables-evolving-chocolatesaucefilled-cent,26672/I love The Onion.
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Here you go Ash — school remotely actives a web cam on a laptop and sees a student in his room at home engaging in "improper behavior" and disciplined him. "According to school officials, they monitored Robbins from Oct. 20, 2009 to Nov. 4, 2009. Without his knowledge, they took 210 webcam photos and 218 screenshots of the information on the teen’s computer screen."http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0817/Did-school-use-laptops-to-spy-on-students-Feds-won-t-press-charges
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OK, ashot, it's in the B&P. How is the Mrs doing? Jumping downstairs yet?My first civilian boss after I got out was a woman who got pregnant with her first child about a year after I started working for her. When her due date started approaching she became more and more ready for the whole pregnancy experience to end, and the last couple of days at work she'd take the elevator up to the third (top) floor and jump down each step back to our lab on the first floor, trying to get something started. We're pretty sure it didn't work, but it sure was funny watching her do it three or four times a day! 🙂
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Bits & Pieces is up.
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Well, I've been on the run (which is probably where many people think I belong) and will be in days and weeks to come.I probably can't improve on what Troll said about bullying in general. Bullies need a beating or at least a slugging. It's an awful situation in the schools today, with zero tolerance of kids hitting back or confronting the bullies. "Why would Michigan Republicans oppose such a bill? Government intrusion perhaps? Nope, it was fear of the big, bad homosexual agenda that fueled opposition. In the decade Republicans have opposed the anti-bullying bill, at least 10 homosexual students committed suicide."I think your post follows a familiar pattern of failing to acknowledge and deal with what you know to be the objection behind the conscience clause: do you want expressions of disapproval of homosexual behavior treated as bullying? If not, how do you think that schools are going to distinguish bullying from speech?And do you deny that use of laws like this to stigmatize and suppress expressions of traditional morality is in fact part of a homosexual agenda or whatever you want to call it?The only thing I find controversial about the conscience clause it that it is obviously too narrow. I can't imagine SCOTUS upholding a law that protects speech only if someone can prove it is of sincerely held belief.
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If not, how do you think that schools are going to distinguish bullying from speech?Just like they distinguish distruption from speech or any other numbers of things from speech. It seems like a bit of a solution in search of a problem at this point. Michi- Some contractions so far, but a bit sporadic and weak…her word not mine. I know better than to refer to a contraction that way.NoVA- Yikes…thanks for the link though.
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Just like they distinguish distruption from speech or any other numbers of things from speech. It seems like a bit of a solution in search of a problem at this point.So speech would not count as bullying?
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