Brent Nyitray
Fairlington Blade
Let the mutherfuker burn!
jnc4p
Kevin S. Willis
Michigoose
lmsinca
markinaustin
Arcanaut
novahockey
quarterback
ScottC
yellojktMy maiden blog post. We’ll see if it generates any interest. . .
I’ve been thinking about gerrymandering and redistricting a lot lately; here in Utah we’re picking up a fourth congressional district and so, in addition to the normal horseplay that goes on (see what happened last time they redistricted and tried to gerrymander our lone Democrat out of office: http://tinyurl.com/5uj4p44. Jim Matheson is the rep for the second district, that one pin-pointed in SLC and then winding around to the east and south), they’re trying to decide whether or not to concede that the urban Wasatch front (centered on Salt Lake City) votes differently than the majority of the rest of the state and set up the new CDs in such a way that we’ll have a pretty reliably Democratic CD, with the other three being solidly Republican, or whether to try to gerrymander four Republican districts out of the state and leave Democrats twisting in the wind again. They’ve even set up a website seeking input from residents (http://tinyurl.com/64z8czp).
This also ties in with the thinking that I’ve been doing about Pennsylvania’s move to try to change the way their Electoral College votes are allocated in order to make the state less reliably blue in presidential elections (which Nate Silver isn’t at all sure would work out for Republicans in the end: http://tinyurl.com/3ow8zfn)
So here’s my question: why do we gerrymander? I understand that politics is a contact sport, and both sides try their best to tip the scales in their favor, but does that actually give us the best government for our money? One of the perennial problems here in Utah is that, because districts from state legislative on up have been so gerrymandered that one party or the other is a virtual shoe-in for the election, voter turnout is traditionally very low. This also leads to the fact that incumbents win re-election something like 90% of the time (nationwide), whether they’re really doing good work for their electorate or not. Why not create non-partisan committees in every state to do the re-districting in a geographically coherent manner? Does designing a district in such a way that it votes reliably for your candidate, regardless of the needs of the individual voters in disparate parts of the district, make for good governance?
Filed under: Uncategorized |
All Things in Moderation 
Does gerrymandering make for good governance? Probably not. Does it make for notably worse governance? Probably not. Maybe sometimes.I prefer arbitrary districts, however. Fill a state with squares, make each one a district. When it comes to national elections (president, senate) the states make a nice arbitrary district. Good enough at the state level, why not at the district level?
LikeLike
Gerrymander = awful, IMHO. If all we have are "rotten boroughs" then all we will get are polar politics, even if the party splits will be the same, over time.Further, the Congressperson no longer is representing a community of interest.Travis County, TX, should have two CDs. Instead it is sliced like a pie to be the narrow end of five CDs. The community of interest that is Travis County will not be represented. Do I need to explain the arithmetic of why CDs carved as rotten boroughs lead to extremism rather than to moderation?
LikeLike
I see your point, but I don't think that completely arbitrary districts would work for local governance. Urban areas have different needs than rural ones for example, and when you throw them together one or the other is ignored (here in UT, SLC is split between all three congressional districts. . . guess who gets ignored). Perhaps using a "pixel" approach: make each square small enough–maybe a quarter mile on a side–count the population within each "pixel" and create the bigger districts form the appropriate number of "pixels".
LikeLike
Mark, it sounds like Travis County and SLC are treated much the same way in order to diminish their impact.
LikeLike
That is how it is for Austin and SLC, as well, 'goose.There are guidelines Kevin would approve for drawing lines by computer, btw. Contiguous precincts, contiguity of town, city, county; respect natural boundaries like mountains and rivers, and compactness, tending geometrically toward circular shapes. Overlay the Voting Rights Act [this is actually not difficult – been there done that]. The Congresscritter can "know" his compact district in a way he cannot know his 230 mi. long snake. My critter missed the fact that he could have saved 5000 jobs in one distant corner of his 230 mi. long CD, by inattention to detail. Jerk might have missed it if his CD was 10 mi across, of course.
LikeLike
spoils systems and gerrymanderingsuch a gothic romance, a bodice ripperSpoils systems, I wonder if that is ok to call crony capitalism. Mark, is Boeing mercantilism? How about Xe/Blackwater and Haliburton's war profiteering? I think the difference is whether the company is domestic, or multinational, otherwise there is no difference.
LikeLike
In this era of easy computing, it would be outrageously simple to put population by town/street into a computer and write a program that started in corner of the state and created equal sized districts throughout. Thus it should be done. The idea of Gerrymandering, or deliberately creating specialized districts (majority-minority), is a corruption that it is long past due to rectify.
LikeLike
Plus when you've got a gerrymandered district, if the rep is from the minority party it effectively forces them into voting as if they were a member of the majority party in order to hang on to their seat. Matheson votes with the Democratic party only 67% of the time (approximately), which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing–hewing unquestioningly to the party line is silly–but where he doesn't vote with the D's can be dangerous for the Dem's agenda. He voted against the ACA and for the BBA, for example.Mark, sounds like you can feel my and okie's pain: blues swimmin' in a sea of red. . .
LikeLike
To play devil's advocate a bit, though, couldn't you argue that, since your party clearly knows the best way to govern, you should do everything in your power to ensure that you get elected?
LikeLike
Michi, that opens a door to game theory.
LikeLike
shrink, isn't that what the Republicans are considering with the change to the Electoral College allocation in PA?
LikeLike
'goose, it only actually ensures that the incumbent gets reelected. It ensures a base number of hard conservative and hard liberal districts and a smaller number of swing districts.Scott, it is almost trivial with a computer even in CA and TX, to get compact contiguous districts, as you say. The VRA is NOT a major issue, however. It may affect the redrawing of 10% of CDs in 11 states in a relatively minor way from a mathematically sound community of interest compact district model.Shrink, war profiteering is usually based on cronyism and big defense contracting on your necessary evil theory of variance from the model. I doubt that semantics will keep us from enjoying the discussion of Halliburton, et. al. I could think of Cheney as analogous to a Chinese General or Suharto if I squint a bit.
LikeLike
OT–I wonder if something's up with Greg or with WaPo? He had almost two hours between posts and now he's throwing it to an Open Thread with Jonathan to follow up with HHR.
LikeLike
that was yello and I deviating into whiskey theory, I think he got disgusted we don't care about what labor leaders think about the crony committee
LikeLike
shrink–I loved your Jameson comment. I thought that whole thread was pretty funny.Seemed like nobody much cared about labor leaders and the committee.
LikeLike
And, it appears, gerrymandering and re-districting wasn't all that great a topic. Oh, well, maybe next time. . .
LikeLike
Jumping in here for the first time and actually OT. My district is right next to Michele Bachman's and Betty McCullom wins here 2-1. If Bachmann's district weren't this skinny piece of territory designed to pick up the far right, she'd still be in the MN legislature. Worse for comedy, but better for governance.
LikeLike
Hi ABC, so glad you made it. I am really.
LikeLike
oh by the way, I'm shrink2
LikeLike
Hi, ABC! Long time no see, and very good to see you now!
LikeLike
I've been way busy and really shouldn't be here now, but lmsinca and Kevin invited and here I am.I'm also still in the shameless promotion mode, which might eventually feel OK. For those of you who missed Greg's link to my new site last month, it's emilymeier.com. It's about my books (fiction) and writing and, to some extent, publishing, which I think is being forced to change and open up to more voices much as the media has. The interview section includes questions from Greg and Josh at TPM, and there's a question from Rosemary James of the Faulkner Society about indie publishing. I'll also soon be posting a question from Dana Gioia for people who're interested in what a little government money can do–in this case the NEAs.
LikeLike
Cool! I'm on my way over to check it out. . .
LikeLike
Welcome, ABC.'goose, Gerrymandering was, and remains, a great topic.ABC, my son-in-law just published his first novel.I will look at your linked website.
LikeLike
Hi ABC, glad you figured it out. When you have time, check out the new post button in the upper right hand corner and see how to create your own post. I know you're busy so no rush. Just so you know though you can save it as a draft, go back and finish and edit before publishing. michi, great job on your first post!!!!!!! :)And FYI I'm not going to CO but am still busy this afternoon making phone calls etc. so I'll check in later. Looks like CO daughter is spending night/weekend in hospital (no surgery though, it's not appendicitis) so I'm getting a cousin and my best friend (both local) to go check on her for me. She'll be fine and is more worried about missing her date with the BLM guy she met a few weeks ago. Shrink just put up a post so maybe wait an hour or so and publish Bits & Pieces someone. ABC, I always wondered how Bachmann won those elections……………….
LikeLike
ABC, we know, don't we know
LikeLike
Thanks, lms, and really glad to hear that it isn't appendicitis! Maybe BLM man can take her some treats in the hospital and offer some comfort. :-)See you later!
LikeLike
michi, I suggested the same thing. Also, I just invited MsJS and I see Bernie is here now also. Wonder when we'll see him, soon I hope.
LikeLike
*waving*My fave gerrymandered CD is the 4th district in Illinois.http://www.govtrack.us/congress/findyourreps.xpd?state=IL&district=4I get that the state wanted an Hispanic district, but in order to create one, two separate Chicago neighborhoods had to be connected. That connection, at its narrowest, is the width of an interstate highway.
LikeLike
still wanting, mikeinArlington, ashotinthedark, a20, jnc4p, NoVA if that's ok. johnbannedagain, we'll get 'im, qb, send me his address please?, I'll lobby, unless of course, it is a "real" one he wants to keep private,victoryatanycost@gmail.com
LikeLike
Check with lms and Kevin about A20.
LikeLike
yes, we should keep a list of marks, credulous, unsuspecting, deeply vulnerable individuals, looking for affirmation, thinking we want them for their ideas…heh he, heh he.
LikeLike
We do know, Shrink–about the Bachmann district.And I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been pretty pleased ever since I learned that Bernie is God. Might be easier out there. . .
LikeLike
Hey there!I lived in Salt Lake City for a couple of years in the mid-90s. I still miss the Avenues. Not to mention the Red Iguana, which introduced me to molé. I also got a front row seat for the Enid Green (and then EG Waldholz) circus. There's a faculty position at UU in my field that I'm considering taking a run at.I loathe gerrymandering, including gerrymanders based on race. My favorite proposal would be to select the map that has the lowest total circumference. In essence, it's a measure of compactness of districts. Utah maps always seemed like several red dragons stabbing at blue SLC. The point is to divide up the city like a pie. How would anyone like to be loathed by their representative in Congress?BB
LikeLike
Hey, BB!The U is a fine place to work (although after a few years it starts to feel a little incestuous–we all work/live/play in the same places mostly) and I've enjoyed it here. SLC still has the Red Iguana and they spun off another one, the Blue Iguana, which is downtown. Not quite as good as the RI but close.Let me know if you come out for an interview or just to scope the place out and I'll buy you a drink!
LikeLike
I'm going to publish the open thread unless anyone objects…………..too late.
LikeLike
Hi MsJs, you found us. And I agree with everyone above and think Kevin would also, but I don't see him around anywhere. From the right you could also add tao of course, sold2u and sbj. I'm afraid we're going to end up being conservative heavy though…………just kidding. What about pragmatic again and willows, and don't forget ashotinthedark?I'm still laying low so I'll leave it up to you guys to do the recruiting and dropping your email in very surreptitiously. Subtle is our middle name.
LikeLike
@goose – Perhaps at Red Rock? I spent a lot of time there. Desert's Edge brewery at the Pub still has one of my favorite stouts. Can you tell I'm a beer guy?I know the U well. I post-doc'd in the physics department. If I get the post, I'd be working with my post-doc supervisor. Kinda like joining the family business.BB
LikeLike
A20 I'm drawing a blank on, but anyone other folks feel can be pleasant, and discuss issues without lapsing into lazy, violent rhetoric is good with me.
LikeLike
And yes, I'm going to disappear for long stretches. Sorry, but ido really want to get this off the ground, and I do end up reading everything.
LikeLike